[MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

[MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Kazkin » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:19 pm

Byond account and character name: Kazkin [Character not applicable]
Discord ID (if applicable): Kazkin#6751
Banning admin: MrSignMeUp
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server and discord
Ban reason given: https://imgur.com/b3Wsedq
Ban length: Permanant
Approximate time ban was placed (including time zone): 03/21/19, 9:12 EST

Your side of the story:
The result of this ban has more to do with an argument between me and Resh that was admittedly handled very poorly by both sides. Before I go into the details of that I need to give the background to the incident. As likely most admins have seen awhile back my primary character, Ahzrukhal Ahkeen, had been character banned and my appeal denied. After the event I had spoken with Apos, also known as Phi Vietsi and Mewchild on byond, a great deal and at length and decided to move Ahzrukhal over to CitRP and continue her story and play there.

Apos and I had come to the understanding at the time, after he posted this in my ban appeal: https://imgur.com/TdcA2ru that our friendship was over. Not with spite mind, during this time I understood his reasoning and while hurt I was leaving on good terms with him, My only contention then was he used personal events and scenes in the linked post to have reasons for me to stay banned. The time I used the *vomit command was done with Resh when he devoured a monkey, the scene was entirely played up for comedy and Resh told me himself he thought it was funny (as we spoke often while playing another game, Deep Rock Galactic, together). That and a few minor details aside we parted ways on good words, in fact, he told me this: https://imgur.com/2XYR19N

He told me he loved me.

The feeling was returned. I’m an honest man and always have been and while my temper can sometimes cloud my words and judgment nobody who knows me well would describe me as dishonest. As dramatic (or idiotic) as the whole event was I did look forward to having a fresh start at CitRP. Apos had mentioned that Phi also played there but that version had never met Ahzrukhal, so in time perhaps our friendship could be rekindled as the problems we had were dealt with. Or at least, that would have happened if I had not realized that Phi himself was the person who reported me through a mistake in his words, in fact he claims himself to be the one who got Ahzrukhal banned: https://imgur.com/svtBgFG

Now, that kind of betrayal hurt me, Apos and I had been friends for nearly a year and we spoke everyday in voice calls and played more than just SS13 together. We even talked about meeting up IRL once or twice because as it turned out we lived only a few hours from each other and I could easily make the trip down to him, though we both kind of knew it was for a specific less than pious reason. As the above image points out we almost had an IRL sexual relationship. So when I was given this: https://imgur.com/agnZBa6 (notice that the date was 3 days after the character ban) I was naturally both angered and distraught by his actions. As it turns out when I first began playing on CitRP Apos began playing more often as well, in fact I saw him often in character as Ahzrukhal. At the time I thought it was because he still wished to remain friends. As it turns out though he was intentionally going to people in private chats and telling them to avoid Ahz as she was “toxic” and that I was a terrible person. It even went so far as in once incident Phi attempting to have Ahzrukhal demoted from RD and permanently brigged for stopping Phi from beating an engineer he was attempting to arrest as CD. In addition to the linked screenshots I have more from two other individuals who were told similar by Phi that I was “toxic” and “should be removed from Citadel”, however both wished to remain anonymous and asked me not to post the screenshots.

But let me summarize this to be more concise. Apos was a close friend of mine and our characters were even married, we discussed meeting up IRL and while I was not interested in a full relationship we were both keenly interested in a sexual relationship. Our friendship however, soured due to actions in character (a long story) but the gist of it being Apos was tired of Ahzrukhals demands for monogamy and cheated on Ahz, which involved her turning into a huge bitch towards him and others. In fact, the person and mistress Apos was sleeping with was Scarletta, now known as Viesti Scarletta as she took his name not three weeks after Ahzrukhal was divorced (https://imgur.com/Ri1y5kx) This transpired in Apos getting rid of Ahzrukhal IC because he wished to scene with others but did not wish to have a publicly known divorce. This end result was Ahzrukhal’s character ban, though I entirely contend that this ban was justified as at the end of it Ahz acted like a bitch and I played her that way, regardless of any reason IC or OOC.

All of this stuff IC and OOC I was disturbed by and both angered and saddened by because at a time Apos and I were very good friends. I had chatted with him in camera calls, I knew his family, his face, his real name. I was his closet friend and he stabbed me in the back over ERP in a 2D space game. I would have been perfectly content to let this sit regardless honestly, after all, what is done is done and my character ban appeal was denied.

However, a few weeks ago I was given new screenshots that I was asked not to share, ones that drastically changed my feelings on the matter and because of it I considered logging into the server simply to send a vitriolic message to Phi IC from Ahzrukhal via her brother Grigore Constantine. While debating doing this I asked Resh about it as we had been good friends for quite a bit and still played/talked often even after I left for CitRP. Unfortunately, with him not knowing the full context, it quickly turned into a full argument with harsh words said on both side. He did however convince me not to send the message IC and to just let it go as it would be stirring the pot. Sadly, I didn’t state this out of pride and under the assumption I was going to do this he banned me from both the server and the discord. Annoyed, I sent him a message that burning our friendship over something I hadn’t actually done and wasn’t going to do was a poor decision, I then let the situation go.

I give this background to reveal my thoughts and reasoning behind my actions and the resulting ban so it gives better context to my thought process and feelings behind my discussion with Resh that resulted in said ban. I was distraught, angry, and wanting in revenge. However now that time has passed I’ve since calmed and the friends I have made at CitRP who also play on Virgo have asked me to play with them once more on Virgo as they enjoy my company. Equally, Ahzrukhal on CitRP is considered one of the best research directors and has earned a positive reputation as being the nicest, most helpful, and most skilled director. If vouches from CitRP from admins are needed I’d be more than happy to get some to post as how I conduct myself as a player and in-character has been considered immensely positive and greatly appreciated.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
Again, given the above, Apos had done a lot of terrible, underhanded, and downright abusive actions towards me as a player. So much so that he had metagrudged me across another server in an attempt to ruin my reputation there before I could be established. That said, the reason for my ban has to due with our personal issues between me and him that Resh became privy to. At the end of the day the action I was banned for was never actually done and is entirely an issue solely between myself and Apos. I still have friends here on Virgo and some wish to play with me once more here. I have since resolved simply to avoid Apos as his actions, speaking only of the ones I have proof and screenshots of provided here, are far more damning then anything I’m guilty of. At the end of the day our relationship turned toxic and his actions caused me to desire to retaliate because he not only metagrudged me but proved himself far worse than he thought of me. My conversation with Resh was poorly conducted. If I simply hadn’t been so prideful as to refuse to admit he had convinced me this whole situation would have never happened. I said quite a few things I didn’t mean in our conversation such is uncaring about being banned and simply doing the proposed idea out of spite. That idea was motivated by the complicated story you see above and now that time as passed I’ve simply resolved to move passed it.
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Aces » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:30 pm

I will open this thread to vouches from Citadel if they want to come here and do that. I am not yet opening it to community discussion overall, though I may do so later.

To be perfectly blunt, Kazkin is not a name I remember fondly. The appeal its self, I am having trouble telling if it's an apology for actions and given some context, or merely excuses for actions with no remorse for them.

Not to belittle you or the situation but this sounds like some classic overblown and unnecessary furry drama shit that usually this community is able to avoid.
Last edited by Aces on Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: TYPOS AHHHH
“A leader is one who, out of madness or goodness, volunteers to take upon himself the woe of the people. There are few men so foolish, hence the erratic quality of leadership.”
― John Updike
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Kazkin » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:03 pm

I do feel the situation did get overblown yes, I'm not excusing my thoughts or my original intent to perform an openly malicious action. However after speaking with Resh he had, as I later messaged him, convinced me not follow through. At the end of the day, I did not directly do anything to Apos on server that was rule breaking. We have our drama but that is a personal matter and not a server or community problem.
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Scree » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:01 pm

I don't particularly care whether you're a good or a skilled research director on citRP if you're going to bring stupid relationship drama to our server because someone you RP with dared to RP with someone else.

As for the rest of your rant about Phi/Apos, he's not the one on trial here. "stabbed you in the back over a 2d space game"? I'd maybe accept "stabbed you in the back in a 2D space game" as a description of what happened, which is from the complete other side of the IC/OOC divide.
And frankly I don't particularly care what "evidence" is supposed to be presented there from you getting a third party to harass phi on your behalf. If anything that's even more evidence that we should keep you gone. Not for Phi's sake, but for anyone else unfortunate to become an object of your obsession.
Everything I've seen about you, this thread included, paints you as a manipulative, controlling, venomous individual who, when no longer able to exert any control over the victim of their abuse, set out to smear them and control how others see them, and I'm not willing to accept the emotional risk you pose to our more vulnerable players.
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Kazkin » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:24 pm

Scree wrote:I don't particularly care whether you're a good or a skilled research director on citRP if you're going to bring stupid relationship drama to our server because someone you RP with dared to RP with someone else.

As for the rest of your rant about Phi/Apos, he's not the one on trial here. "stabbed you in the back over a 2d space game"? I'd maybe accept "stabbed you in the back in a 2D space game" as a description of what happened, which is from the complete other side of the IC/OOC divide.
And frankly I don't particularly care what "evidence" is supposed to be presented there from you getting a third party to harass phi on your behalf. If anything that's even more evidence that we should keep you gone. Not for Phi's sake, but for anyone else unfortunate to become an object of your obsession.
Everything I've seen about you, this thread included, paints you as a manipulative, controlling, venomous individual who, when no longer able to exert any control over the victim of their abuse, set out to smear them and control how others see them, and I'm not willing to accept the emotional risk you pose to our more vulnerable players.


I haven't had anyone "harass" Phi on my behalf, when he sent them messages bad mouthing me several people asked me about it, hence the screenshots, what you're saying is a blatant lie trying to misrepresent the history of the situation. It is rather comedic of you, Scree, to say I'm being manipulative or venomous when I provided screenshots proving that is how Apos was acting towards me. He deliberately attempted to smear me in another community as evidenced by the screenshots given to me by others, I didn't ask them to do so, they simply were curious as to why Apos was bad mouthing me. Phi was simply my friend and did some underhanded stuff, which resulted in me being angry towards him. The ban itself still stands as something I merely thought of doing but never actually did.
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby JoanRisu » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:32 pm

Alright, so this situation involves emotions that can be understandably complicated and let it be known that it is important to understand that sometimes in the heat of the moment we can do stupid things. However, it is also important to also understand that, understandable emotions or not, one must be able to identify where things actually went wrong and what behaviors are unacceptable by community standards in order to achieve an appeal that is satisfactory to those assigned to review it.

And this is where this is going to get incredibly uncomfortable for the applicant:

The result of this ban has more to do with an argument between me and Resh that was admittedly handled very poorly by both sides.


All bans are recorded into a specific channel meant to track our notes whenever administrative action is taken in the community. Your specific case landed on our desk and while you can argue all you want that you were just ranting, a rant does not include the insistence that the person ranting is going to follow through with malicious intent. Had you just kept it to just unloading about your situation instead of being elaborate about wanting to commit a specific act, I would have expected Resh to either ignore you or lend a therapeutic ear (Which most would want when ranting an actual rant). You do not put an admin in a situation where they have to consider having to actively talk you out of committing a malicious act nor leave them to believe that the malicious act is going to be carried out nor blame them for believing that the malicious act will be carried out. That is an uncomfortable situation and that just makes it more likely to land you a ban because we do not want that kind of behavior here nor are obligated to entertain such thoughts/scenarios.

tl;dr I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that Resh did anything wrong or responsible in equal measure to the contribution of the situation that has led to your ban.

Now let's talk about this story behind the supposed rant that resulted in the ban:

A lot of the backstory regarding this whole thing is fluff. Had I not been compelled by my personal habit of making sure to break down what I am reading so I understand the whole situation, I would be not have read this entire thing and skipped to the end of this because to be very brutal and honest, I do not care for blocks and blocks of text that should have been concisely boiled down to "I was really mad and hurt because I thought we had something and found that we didn't. I wanted to express what I was feeling but I did not know how to."

I get it. You were hurt. In a normal situation, an admin would actually allow you to vent at them over it because it is a stressful event. I empathize, I know what it is like to suddenly be in a position in an online relationship that I never thought I would I find myself in. However, and any admin or community member can disagree with me and call me out on this if they want, you shot yourself in the foot by making the backstory and your current feelings about another community member the primary focus of your appeal instead of acknowledging the behavior that landed you the ban was the problem. Yes, we ask for context for your side of the story. What we did not ask for was an essay that fully drags another person into a conversation that may very well compel them to defend themselves in an appeal that is not their own. This is ultimately about you, not them.

Again, given the above, Apos had done a lot of terrible, underhanded, and downright abusive actions towards me as a player.

This alone is absolutely unacceptable for an appeal. This isn't about them. They aren't pleading their case to us. Leave them out of your conclusion. You alone are responsible for your actions. You are responsible for you.

At the end of the day the action I was banned for was never actually done and is entirely an issue solely between myself and Apos.

This would be fine and dandy had you not convinced an admin you were going to go through with it. Pride or not, you should not have put Resh in that position to begin with and you probably would not be here appealing today had you apologized to Resh immediately following the ban instead of acting as though he wronged you for believing that you were going to go through with the malicious act.

Additionally:
I was his closet friend and he stabbed me in the back over ERP in a 2D space game.

This is so ridiculously ironic and if you are so aware of this, all this fluff would not be necessary for the appeal.

That idea was motivated by the complicated story you see above and now that time as passed I’ve simply resolved to move passed it.

I want to believe you. I can't because this appeal looks less like an appeal and more-so "Here is why I think this particular person is bad," lending to the idea that you have not moved on in the slightest. If you have tried to move on, you did not move past it far enough and are still carrying baggage that is interfering with your ability to properly appeal and clearly address the specific behavior that landed you this ban.

I do not support this appeal. It is reflective of behaviors that I am painfully experienced in and do not want in this community. Time heals all wounds but not this soon and this appeal has made that very clear.
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Scree » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:50 pm

Kazkin wrote:I haven't had anyone "harass" Phi on my behalf, when he sent them messages bad mouthing me several people asked me about it, hence the screenshots, what you're saying is a blatant lie trying to misrepresent the history of the situation. It is rather comedic of you, Scree, to say I'm being manipulative or venomous when I provided screenshots proving that is how Apos was acting towards me. He deliberately attempted to smear me in another community as evidenced by the screenshots given to me by others, I didn't ask them to do so, they simply were curious as to why Apos was bad mouthing me. Phi was simply my friend and did some underhanded stuff, which resulted in me being angry towards him. The ban itself still stands as something I merely thought of doing but never actually did.

Don't give me that. Nothing Apos said in those screenshots is even all that concerning. Someone went and started a chat with him asking what you were so mad about, and he said so, and they leaked the conversation back to you. I notice that you didn't provide any screencaps of whatever prompted that person to message Apos. Ranting? I dunno. Don't particularly care. He's not the one on trial here.
Go ahead and drop the rest of your repository of screenshots that it's a totally normal thing to keep on hand in case you later need to shittalk people, I'm sure that'll work out.
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Kazkin » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:03 pm

A reasonable opinion Joan, I'm sorry you feel that way. It was poorly worded in terms of implying Resh was at fault, I don't think he was. I ranted at him as a friend and put him in a tough position, his actions were more than justified. In terms of my opinions and views on Apos' actions I had to give context as to why the ban happened and how I felt during the time of the events. If you felt that was unnecessary then so be it but I felt the appeal would be lacking without proper history being put forth. I haven't once tried to excuse my own actions or say that I wasn't responsible, I've only explained why I did or said what I did.

And, as an aside, there was no "relationship" outside of being friends or what our characters had. As proven by my screenshot although Apos and myself felt deeply for each other I had absolutely no interest in dating him.

As for Scree, I merely picked up the screenshots from discord. That was it. It's really that simple. As I requested by the two others not to post the screenshots I won't, of the person who was fine, Allakai, I can explain the context to why he messaged me about it though I have no screenshots. I ran into his character on CitRP and we got to talking, Ahz began talking about her ex-husband and had some rather bitter things to say about it. As it turned out Apos was spectating it and began talking to Allakai over discord. Hence where the screenshot came from, I'm not exactly sure why he was watching me or Allakai, that isn't for me to say. After the event Allakai messaged me asking the backstory and I told him
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Thranos » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:28 pm

Just popping in here to remark on the "saving screenshots of like everything for blackmail" aspect that Scree touched on:
Yeah, he tried to do that to a private discord server he was on with me and other people. Seems to be his MO for when he doesn't get what he wants.

Back into shitposting mode, though:
IMAGINE GETTING CUCKED BY A BIRD HAHA HOW BAD DO YOU HAVE TO BE
CLUCKED HARD FUCCBOI
TOO BAD THE TESHARI WASN'T DARK-FEATHERED SO YOUR E-WAIFU COULDN'T BE CLUCKED *AND* BLACKED AT THE SAME TIME
[+]
I'm the trash salt man!
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Re: [MrSignMeUp] Kazkin - Complicated (See Thread)

Postby Kazkin » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:37 pm

Classy as always Thranos.
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