Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

A general area for the general things that generally happen in our server.

Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby SpoopyLizz » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:04 am

Yesterday on the discord I brought up a point I felt was worthy of lengthy, thought out discussion. The fact that predators often seem to get extremely negative and outright toxic attention, causing them to eventually leave, only for people to wonder where the hell all the predators went, and when new ones join, for the entire thing to happen all over again.
People soon derailed the entire point of the discussion and it was disregarded as the usual monthly thing. If it gets talked about so often, then maybe it REALLY IS AN ISSUE THAT NEEDA TO BE SOLVED.

I've had several run-ins with this exact kind of behaviour, which left sore tastes in my mouth about the server in general, and outright made me not know what to do with most of the characters on the station because I tended to stick to people who I knew would not give me shit.

To name a few examples, and yes, I know, ahelp it:
-A security officer somehow knew I ate the bartender in his own backroom. He bluntly asked me, who did you eat? I responded with Pun-Pun. Said monkey then got thrown through the bar and I got tased on the spot and brigged for 30 minutes. The guy admitted in looc he went with the sound, and the red text, to know I had eaten someone in private. He also said he pretty much hated my character.
-Try being prey once as an avid predator and you'll never hear the end of it. Medical staff constantly laughs at the character, even lasting for several shifts, or making it a permanent joke. To give an example of how to do it right; when I got eaten, Duke said to Roiz, "Hay there big guy, so ya finallah know wut its laik ta be on tha receiving side? Naw go an gimme summin ta do." He acknowledged I got eaten, but also acknowledged I still like to pred. This is the good kind of banter. Banter in itself shouldn't have to be an issue, but know when to stop, or else it'll just become annoying and may end up driving people away. Which it has already.
-Predators become unfun to play, because characters will avoid them, or friends of a character you ate will actively work on making sure they stay the hell away from the predator, creating an air of... Unfun, and tediousness. For example, I ate a Teshari. Other Tesharies would completely distrust my character, and even bolted down a door to make sure I couldn't interact with them. This reduces the chances you can get to scene with them, and thus feels like the players want nothing to do with your character, BECAUSE YOU PRED. The unfun aspect has caused pred players to be driven away, or make their character get perma'd, because they don't enjoy playing that character anymore because other characters and players will make it unfun to play that one. This even drove friends of that player away as well.
-One time I ate a person who doesn't do vore as much. They're more into the inflation side of things. I indulged them in their darker interests and they decided to return the favor; they let me eat their character. Somehow, a friend of this character knew. I was in the dorms, had during that shift not even once interacted with this friend, but he kept PDA'ing me they were scared about the character, and constantly asked what I'm doing, where I am, and why I kept avoiding the question. I told them they're fine, we'll see them in a bit, and she'll be all healthy. So then they got resleeved, I brought the character to that friend, and they somehow knew I did bad things. They forced my character to admit I ate them, and went completely berserk, if they didn't ICly get held back, they probably would have killed my character or at least make sure he'd get sent to medical with a coma. Hence why I mention the UNFUN.
-I got brigged because a friend of a person I ate told sec via PDA, when I dragged them off to the very back of the kitchen. Lo and behold, four sec officers bursted in with their tazers in my face, yelled at him every second as if he was able to jump their shit every second, when I play a character who doesn't have the will to fight back, and gets easily startled. The scene was interrupted and I got brigged, it didn't have the vore crime treatment.
-People were tossing a harpy around on the kitchen counter. It was all in good fun, and they'd talk about who gets to eat them, when they decided to let the chef have him to make chicken wings, except not really because soft vore. The chef being me. The CD at the time said, "If you dare touch him I will make sure you're hanged upside down on your balls." Bam, fun gone. It spiraled away into a LOOC discussion, things got out of hand, at which point I said fuck it all and disconnected right there because I was so fucking pissed off. Later on I got told that same CD was sucking someone's blood IN THE BAR IN /ME to the point the victim turned into a dry raisin. Unwillingly too. The hypocrisy on this one is blatantly stupid.

This is all over the span of roughly four to five months.

Now, to summarize all this. Do we really want an atmosphere in which people are driven away eventually, whether ICly or OOCly, because they do the thing this server was made for? Do we really want things to become unfun for everyone? I'm pretty sure it's all supposed to be in good fun, is it not? Then let's stop fucking around and make sure this doesn't stay a monthly discussion.
And yes, I know, bla bla respond realistically to people being eaten.

If I forgot anything that was said during the Discord discussion last night, feel free to chip in, it was 2 am and I was extremely tired.

Ps; furry drama is a real fucking thing and this shows it
Like seriously chill the fuck out and have fun, stop causing shit
User avatar
SpoopyLizz
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:26 pm

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby Ketrai » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:33 am

Well I pred quite frequently, and I honestly have to say I haven't encountered as many issues like this in the past. There was that one incident sure, where a doctor ruined our rp by ickypacking me when we wanted to rp it out. But I don't even think that one is related. If anyone there's only one gooey person who teases me about being prey-ish, and a pai, but rarely still. It's more or less when the subjects comes up they talk about it, no other reason. You shouldn't try to push all predators on one line as you imply o-o. One of the things I do agree with it is that prey shouldn't just pda people to warn them that they got eaten without asking the predator first in looc. dealing with security or friends when it isn't asked for is just stupid, especially if they carry through isn't done well. Also brigging for vore crimes? That should be timeskipped. you ate someone? get 10 minutes, make it official, but then only actually lock em up for a minute. I'm pretty sure it's in the rules, or at least has been established so by an admin. If you're an onlooker, or somehow have information about an unwilling scene, looc the pred. Otherwise ignore it, or rp it off as you being too scared to tell or something. after all I'm sure the pred might have another spot left... Lastly cliques. It is really really annoying if people give you shit for eating someone. I've even had an ic admin bother me for this before. I ate your favourite snake, am I a monster now? I'd rather see it rp'd like the predator just having given in on their urges, and people being a little understanding of that... and I definitely don't like seeing long term grudges come from this.
User avatar
Ketrai
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby Miria Masters » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:40 am

When I was on the station more regularly, I was treated with great suspicion by medical staff when informing them that my willing prey needed to be brought back, asking me questions about it ICly, as if it wasn't obvious. It made me feel uncomfortable, like I had done something wrong. It was a private scene, I did not want to go talking about it... It feels like there is TOO much disapproval of the very fetish this group is supposed to be focused on... I get that people are supposed to have realistic reactions to things, but like... if someone did legitimately eat someone else when they weren't okay with it, they would not be asking to get that person cloned, or what ever is used now...
User avatar
Miria Masters
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:48 pm

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby Dhaeleena » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:07 am

I will comment here. A lot of thins problems you are bringing up are worth to being brought up to admins, Like, inmediatly.

1. "-A security officer somehow knew I ate the bartender in his own backroom. He bluntly asked me, who did you eat? I responded with Pun-Pun. Said monkey then got thrown through the bar and I got tased on the spot and brigged for 30 minutes. The guy admitted in looc he went with the sound, and the red text, to know I had eaten someone in private. He also said he pretty much hated my character."

You Ahelp this or tell the Guy in LOOC that you just wanna enjoy your scene. You were in the backdoor which is a private place.

2. Is medbay or people being annoying with that second issue? Why dont just tell them to like..stop? Like "Could you please stop with the names and stuff, its annoying and unfun" if the behavior doesnt stop then Ahelp.

3. Third issue..like..First of all the teshari packs are annoying me a lot because you ate one and the entire group knows, We the admins are investigating this for powergaming because we are very tired of this happening, its like the fifth time.
Anyways as how to deal with this issue..Talking, Also every single one of this issues can be evaded by just asking the people being utterly annoying to just stop and let you enjoy your scene or AHELPING us.

4. "-One time I ate a person who doesn't do vore as much. They're more into the inflation side of things. I indulged them in their darker interests and they decided to return the favor; they let me eat their character. Somehow, a friend of this character knew. I was in the dorms, had during that shift not even once interacted with this friend, but he kept PDA'ing me they were scared about the character, and constantly asked what I'm doing, where I am, and why I kept avoiding the question. I told them they're fine, we'll see them in a bit, and she'll be all healthy. So then they got resleeved, I brought the character to that friend, and they somehow knew I did bad things. They forced my character to admit I ate them, and went completely berserk, if they didn't ICly get held back, they probably would have killed my character or at least make sure he'd get sent to medical with a coma. Hence why I mention the UNFUN."
This is straight out fucking metagaming if you did not Ahelp this you should have like immediately, This is a clear sign the person ghosted or got outside information of this situation.

5. "-I got brigged because a friend of a person I ate told sec via PDA, when I dragged them off to the very back of the kitchen. Lo and behold, four sec officers bursted in with their tazers in my face, yelled at him every second as if he was able to jump their shit every second, when I play a character who doesn't have the will to fight back, and gets easily startled. The scene was interrupted and I got brigged, it didn't have the vore crime treatment. "

So you are talking about your Prey calling security on YOU without your explicit OOC consent? Because that is the Dickish thing ever and i would never scene with that person again after that. Not only that but you should ahelp that or work it out with some LOOC if it was a miscommunication Incident. If prey likes to call security on pre they should state that VERY CLEARLY in their OOC NOTES. Otherwise it breaks the rules for scene baiting.

6. "-People were tossing a harpy around on the kitchen counter. It was all in good fun, and they'd talk about who gets to eat them, when they decided to let the chef have him to make chicken wings, except not really because soft vore. The chef being me. The CD at the time said, "If you dare touch him I will make sure you're hanged upside down on your balls." Bam, fun gone. It spiraled away into a LOOC discussion, things got out of hand, at which point I said fuck it all and disconnected right there because I was so fucking pissed off. Later on I got told that same CD was sucking someone's blood IN THE BAR IN /ME to the point the victim turned into a dry raisin. Unwillingly too. The hypocrisy on this one is blatantly stupid."

Okay here lets see..At first well yea that was a bit dickish from the CD at first, a bit unfun and that threat is a bit overboard, But still if the harpy was unwilling someone was at some point end up doing or saying something. Then i know how it feels to be pissed off and everyone does, i hope you talked to an admin after that or the day after. Then well thats pretty bad to do from the CD and they should be ashamed of fucking other people's fun while they do that if they did.

Anyways. All i can tell you is that, Preds gain reputation, SPECIALLY when they are known for doing things in *public* . Im not trying to say "Hurr hurr preds should never do public stuff and go private 24/7!" because thats boring, but doing public stuff has its risks...I personally never had any of this issues and im a Unwilling only scene usually, My preds never get shit and i dont get shit either cuz i dont like public stuff so i tell my pred to keep it low.
One will very rapidly gain some sort of public rep by doing stuff in public, If it becomes annoying or bothersome, there is absolutley nothing stopping you for messaging any of us staff or talking with the people egging you.
As i said before a lot of this can be evaded and stopped by just...talking 'face to face'/DM's whataver and working things out, showing your displeasure with the situation.

A week ago had someone ate my character in a scene in the bar, it was a unaware scene, In the middle of it, my pred started icly freaking out about not finding me and making a huge scene infront of everyone..once that started i brought up LOOC and just straight out told them how i disliked the situation and that stopped.
User avatar
Dhaeleena
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:19 pm

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby Verkister » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:13 am

Ketrai is not big and scary enough to attract pred shaming :^)

Anyway yeah I heard my cents could do well here so here come some.

-Un-stigmatizing casual vore is something that needs to be done. A pred showing signs of hunger in a hallway shouldn't be told off to get a room before even having started with a prey. It's really not anywhere even close to like, say, having two naked people graphically junk wrestling each other in the middle of a hallway floor, which would be kinda inappropriate. Like what, you can eat the vendor snacks wherever the fuck you feel like, and it shouldn't be too strictly nsfw to do it with a more wriggling kind of snack. As I've said in the chats a couple times: It's no bedroom stuff to eat a dude and you would not be able to start any sort of scene without having to foreplay it with a romantic date or a kidnapping of some sort in order to drag the partner off into private.

-(un)Fun police. Where is all the pred-sec? What the hell's with the only people who could actually use vore as a complementary element to their job instead of having it be seen as "off-duty slacktivity" choosing be a scenebreaking anti-indecency squad instead? Be the police who is fun, not a fun police. Yeah, while the HRP environment and canon corporate bureaucracy might feel like a call for absolute strictness, your character is still more or less vaguely humanlike with a mind and desires of their own.

-Condescending medical. "Oh you want a backup implant? Here have a passive-aggressive fuck you for presumably becoming a suicide snack in 5 minutes on purpose just to overwork us you dumb.", "What? You come tell us someone needs to be resleeved? Wow call the damn cops we have a murderer on the loose and you should really rather go to hell than ever continue with your vorish acts.", "Oh you got injured? We are so full of meta that we know it was obviously intentional self harm or darwinism on this baby-proof station. Here's a band-aid don't come back.", "Well lookie here, a preyslut is emerging from the sleeving pod. Stop getting ate and causing us work you suicidal little shit.". Exaggerated as hell but yeah, anyway the oversaturation of these colors isn't exactly coming off a greyscale experience either. It often feels so much more appealing to just get gurgled out uninsured instead of having to climb up to get implant-shamed and post-sleeve lectured. Hell, to add to this, a pred character will pretty much instantly lose their pred-cred upon requesting a backup since you know, there is only one way out on this station.
OUCH!
User avatar
Verkister
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 1:04 pm
Location: The grorious southern ostrobothnia of finland

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby Scree » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:11 pm

I'm going to start banning people for metagrudge if I hear of more incidents of someone eating someone totally in private and then someone else riding their ass about it after the fact.

Seriously, Roiz. If I'd been ghosting over you when those things happened I'd be warming the hammer.

As for other instances of people just assuming vore and being a cunt to people over it anyway, that behaviour is not welcome. I don't give a shit of it's "in-character", it still falls foul of the kinkshaming rules.

Personally I'm in favour of extending the vore-crime-ooc-timeskip to all forms of punishment-after-the-fact. tl;dr someone eats people? No, you're not allowed to go seeking revenge on them or fucking them over long after the fact.
Security or not. You're not here to "win" by catching all the predators, you're here to have fun. We're all here to have fun. If you contribute negatively to your fellow players' ability to have fun, you are likely not wanted.
User avatar
Scree
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby SpoopyLizz » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:30 pm

Ahelp more right when it happens, I think that point has been hammered in my skull pretty good right now :lol:
As for issue number 5 Dhae, the prey didn't call sec, their friend did.

On a serious note. The point I'm trying to make here is that it's not exactly the situations themselves anymore I have issues with, but it's the ramifications and the implications such situations have. As a matter of fact, many other people feel like there are some deep rooted issues in the server at the moment that cause a massive gap between people and will drive them away. It's already happened and it will continue to happen, but the worst thing about this is the fact most of the symptoms of this problem are not easily noticed, because some people are quite subtle about it. Such as straight-up ignoring a predatory character, or avoiding them even. I'm trying to get people to talk about it, hence why I made the topic in the first place, because I've heard several people mention exactly this sort of issue. People are hostile against each other because they don't care about those characters, there is nothing they have in common with them, so why make an effort to do things with them? Those players will feel like they don't matter anymore, and then they leave, because they're tired of putting in tons of effort and getting nothing in return, which is hard to administrate.
Another issue is people responding IC'ly to vore happening around them. Someone, I forgot who, raised a good point. There is vore happening all around the place. Would it be a stretch to say that it is unrealistic for them to go somewhere else if they are so opposed to it? If they want nothing to do with it IC'ly, why are they still here?

I feel like Verkister raises some good suggestions. That's also the point of this thread. Suggestions to make things better, ideas to help bring people together again, instead of making them feel unwelcome because of the things they like and do. Openmindedness is the keyword I'm looking for here. Part of that change in mentality comes from the change in the playerbase, I feel; there has definitely been a shift, but in which direction, I can't say for certain yet, but it's one that creates a somewhat nasty and almost even caustic environment to be in. Stupid things constantly happen that shouldn't even be happening in the first place, because there are people around who can't seem to be chill for once, which in turn ruins fun, and makes people feel bad, and afraid to engage anything. It's all a snowball effect that just turns into a downward spiral, and moves people away from the server, people who have been here for years and always enjoyed it up until now.
Sometimes stupid things happen such as a forced suicide. Being a HRP server, this means someone has to respond to it, or some higher-up will threaten with firing personnel or something similar if they don't go to the chucklefuck that caused trouble because of something stupid going on, which often times is an incredible moodkill, and if it keeps on happening, people are just done.

I was thinking of organizing a sort of event that heavily contains vore. Organize a banquet for prey characters, and then the main dishes become those prey characters once they're full and fed. Things like that. It'd be a good way to get vore back into the foreground. Doesn't even have to be anything difficult, neither would it require an event master or anything; just make an announcement that the kitchen is organising a massive banquet for herbivores, with plenty of delicious salads and stuff like that, and tell the predators their share of the banquet is there too, but they'd be there for the second course - the preys!

Again, I'm not mindlessly lamenting about things, or making it feel like a 'woe is me' thing, because I hate that as much as anyone. I also particularly don't like drama, but things have been going on and on way too much and it's actively ruining the fun for a lot of people, be it OOC'ly, IC'ly... As for what can be done about it precisely, I'm not 100% sure other than a-helping. But as I said, things just tend to gradually build up because of this subtlety, until the pressure becomes too much and then things just burst.

And yes, I realize I may make myself rather notorious or something, having been so vocal about all this. If people are talking about me behind my back, I understand, because I have been saying quite a bit of things lately.
I also realize I may repeat myself often. I'm a friggin' klutz.
User avatar
SpoopyLizz
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:26 pm

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby Verkister » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:22 am

Adding a bit of some other but still relevant stuff discussed in the last night's discord chaos.

-The emote/subtle policing in IC. Multiple people raised the frequent question of whether un-subtle posts in a public area scene warrant an open invitation for anyone to "react" without asking (No, I'm not talking about the small harmless shit like emoting uncomfy expressions and noping out and such. I'm talking about the verbal shaming, "whiteknighting", and generally butting in for direct involvement.) Short answer should be no, not without an acknowledged warning at least. This is the kind of stuff where a little LOOC nudge or heads-up is more than welcome to replace the straight jump into action. I've encountered multiple occasions where a person involved in the scene legit hadn't even discovered the subtle feature yet. LOOC the folks and helpfully introduce them to the subtle feature if they aren't familiar with it. This will stop the chatlog molestation you were enduring without shitting on anyone or unnecessarily breaking the scenes. A slightly embarrassed player will turn out better than a player shunned and shat on.
Last edited by Verkister on Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
OUCH!
User avatar
Verkister
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 1:04 pm
Location: The grorious southern ostrobothnia of finland

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby Scree » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:07 pm

A lot of roiz's things also bring up another issue, that it's poor form to call security as a third party the instant you see vore taking place if you're not involved in the scene, because even if the sec players don't want to be buzzkills, you're kinda forcing them to get involved.

I've lost count of the number of times security have been surrounding someone after being called to a scene, the sec players don't want to be killing the suspect's fun or ruining their game, and their response when the voice-on-high tells them it's okay OOCly to just forget all this shit ever happened and walk off is... a sigh of relief as they get to go back to whatever they were doing instead of being put in a situation that does nothing but piss off everyone involved.

This is going to be addressed in the upcoming policy changes/clarifications, but the instant you call security, the scene instantly goes out of control and it's no longer possible to de-escalate it or stop it. Think very carefully before you step over that line.
User avatar
Scree
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: Predators and preyshaming, among other issues

Postby Xindii » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:37 pm

[quote="Scree"]A lot of roiz's things also bring up another issue, that it's poor form to call security as a third party the instant you see vore taking place if you're not involved in the scene, because even if the sec players don't want to be buzzkills, you're kinda forcing them to get involved./quote]


I can't state this enough. Just recently I had a scene in which someone not only called security, but they did so stealthily over PDA without giving me or the other people involved in the scene a chance to know until security had descended upon us. Naturally the person who stealth-informed Security stuck around to watch the action unfold. Kind of feels like they got their fun out of it, and we didn't.
Xindii
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:24 am

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron