In regards to hunger and metabolism, do keep in mind that when a person is hungry enough they take a movement speed penalty, and that if you lower the speed of micros /and/ macros are constantly starving so their speed is cut as well, then anyone at a different size is going to be moving slower than someone who’s normal in a large number of situations. The difference being micros would have no way to counter-act their slow speed and be hit even harder when putting on mag-boots, armor, or bulky suit, while macros are encouraged to devour things frequently and find players to snack on lest they suffer the hunger pangs.
Also keep in mind that if all of these changes were implemented and /just/ these changes, then you introduce a very strange scenario in which a tiny little micro character fighting against anything else is FORCED to STAND AND FIGHT because running away IS NOT AN OPTION, when theoretically running from danger should be the first and most viable. It is not reasonable to shift the balance in such a way that micros fighting against enemy players or NPC mobs are better off standing their ground and hammering away because if they try to run everything else will just be faster.
Likewise, while there aren’t any numbers given and said numbers can always be tweaked, you want to avoid scenarios in which any macro is automatically as dangerous as a hulk because security never has weapons that can slow them down, or because they are just so big they are immune to stuns, while on the reverse micros can be instagibbed by accident with a stray shot. Balance means balance, not one side is automatically superior in every way that matters, and the other side always looses.
We want there to be a reasonable balance in combat, and right now Macros have major advantages in crowd control and troop transport, while micros have advantages in both stealth AND playing the tank. What most people expect the balance to be is the giants are better at tanking damage and drawing fire, while the micros are scouts, stealthy little sneaks, and occasional assassins if you give them a dangerous enough weapon. Incentivizing the macro to run away and stay at the back lest they got shot by everyone, while giving the micro reasons to play the lone hero and face dangers head on, is just a silly set-up.
Which is part of what makes me worry about the idea of giving micros a miss chance … I don’t want them to be better tanks than they already are, that takes away the fun of me trying to build a front-line combat micro with Arbon. If I’m getting bonuses to do that anyway then I’m just playing into the established norms. Making it so that clicking on a square that contains the micro always clicks the micro could solve one problem, but I think its more fun if you just have them take a bit more damage to make up for the fact they are hard to click. Otherwise you can run into scenarios where a micro is making you incapable of picking up something right next to them under the assumption that … micros … magically flit over to your hand the moment it gets too close. Precision clicking presents more options and I’d rather we balance around the difficulty to hit in melee (as we have with the foot-related intent based grabs and stomps) than to remove that aspect entirely.
Lowered movement speed, lowered and increased damage from certain types, all these are very sensible things to do and could help with a pros and cons balance between each of the different sizes, my real concern is that we’ll either make micros be entirely useless in any combat oriented event and near instantly die the moment they take any sort of damage. Miss chance can sort of balance that out, but the problem is that micros are tanks right now and we want them to not be tanks. Making them a dodge-tank with low HP doesn’t change much, just makes combat more frustrating for both parties. Either the micro is lucky and never gets hit, or is unlucky and drops on the first blow. Both are still reasonable ideas but depending on the values put in place can easily scew us toward an awkward balance. To say nothing of what happens when a spider shows up and micros can’t run (too low movespeed) can’t fight (too low damage) and die quickly (take too much damage) while also being impossible to find so we know the person died.
I would suggest encouraging an alternate fighting style in which the micro’s best options are to run away and hide somewhere, maybe take a pot shot or a quick stab coming out of stealth but otherwise both trying (and able) to avoid danger If they position well. Ability to walk under tables as if they weren’t there are a must for this, and yes even reinforced tables, if anyone else can just climb over it then a micro being able to crawl under the small crack and stay hidden should be valid. It allows us to be lazy, as it’s not like reinforced tables are that much of a barrier in the new code.
Possible mouse holes on specific event maps or old parts of the station, maintenance seems the most reasonable place to put a few of them, but I’m not sure on this one.
A hide function similar to the mouse’s Hide ability, put it up in the Abilities tab whenever someone is micro and when active a person is placed at the bottom of any sprite they happen to share a square with. Toss papers around the room and activate hide, suddenly your sprite is under the papers. If the place is dirty and messy, then micros have more hiding places. Debate on slightly lower movement speed while hiding (because its literally a stealth feature that requires cover) and make it so that opening a door, making an attack, or firing any form of weapon automatically removes you from hiding and places your sprite on the top layer.
Against other players, if you make the damage variables low enough so that trying to attack without backup is silly, AND you aren’t slow enough to run or chase, then fortifying a position and having a fallback option … even in the form of a pile of garbage to go hide in, could make fights or hide and seek a bit more dynamic.
Against NPC mobs, if a micro has the hide ability turned on, then the NPC mob will not notice to target them. This would allow mobs to be dangerous and liable to insta-kill a micro, but at the same time they have this option to try and sneak past or get away. If attacking the mob and opening a door breaks stealth, requiring you to re-hide again, then its harder to outright cheese the AI into making yourself unkillable, but you aren’t forced into playing the victim with no options the moment a single carp shows up. If possible it would be nice to code things so that if you walk through the square of a hostile mob it notices and attacks you even if your hiding, but in combination with micros taking high enough damage and dealing very little this could open up opportunities to encourage scouting and stealthy positioning. Run and hide from the monster, as opposed to hammer away and hope you deal enough damage.
(always wondered how a micro could use a ripply just as well as a normal sized person or how a macro could even fit in one)
My answer to this with Arbon is that the mouse is just hopping back and forth between all the buttons and petals, shoving his shoulders into some of them and stomping on others to press them down. The other option is that the inside of a mech is literally a computer console with some variation of a keyboard and joystick, and while slower its just a matter of walking over to reach the buttons. The answer I keep seeing for macros is that they crumple up and squeeze themselves inside, being very uncomfortable contortionists who can barely move once crammed into the metal can. Still others just say they personally can’t use a mech at all, and avoid using one because they feel it would be too silly for their own character to try, while at the same time not chiding others for having found a fluff reason. Giving players more options for their character is usually better than more restrictions. I’d suggest not toying with Mechs until /after/ we have some macro or micro variant weapons to replace the missing functionality. We don’t want to say miners can’t ever use a Ripley after all.
I am very, very iffy on any ‘buff’ or ‘nerf’ that just takes away what tools you can use in an otherwise tools based game, because if there isn’t some equivalent you can access then you run the risk of severely damaging a player’s ability to function in whatever role. If we could have an entire tools overhaul and make specialized versions of each thing, awesome! But until then we should all still be able to use the same equipment on the logic that, just like our clothing, objects are normally resized to fit into your hand because of each person’s individual redspace field.
My overall suggestions.
Macros:
Pros/Cons:
+ Take less brute, burn and toxin damage. (pain and stuns have normal effect)
+ Deal more brute damage with melee attacks. (but not other types)
+ Retain full grabbing capacity.
+ Automatically destroy spider webs by stepping on them, instantly remove webbing from a wrapped item.
+ Automatically destroy vines by clicking on them, no hacking tools required.
+ Macro grabs default to advanced, allowing for a two-click gulp, or a two-click throw.
+ Make grabs and stomps work on hostile mobs.
- Nutriment depletes at a faster rate.
- Gains less nutriment from eating food or digesting people.
- Has a slightly lower miss chance, making all attacks more likely to land a hit on them.
- Takes more suffocation damage, as their bodies require more air.
- Body regenerates at a slightly slower rate.
Micros:
Pros/Cons:
+Takes less suffocation damage
+ Ability to walk under tables instantly, while others have to climb them.
+ Hide function, similar to the Mouse’s hide ability with above modifications.
+ Increased miss chance.
+ Gains more nutriment from food.
+ Nutriment degrades at a slower rate.
+ damage regenerates at a slightly higher rate.
- Takes more Brute, burn, and toxin damage (pain and stuns have normal effect)
- Takes damage and gets stunned when walking over an armed mousetrap.
- Deals less brute damage with melee attacks (but not other types)
- Maintain the grabbing and stomping functions already in place.
- Micros take a massive reduction in movement speed when pulling or dragging anyone larger.
Optional suggestions I’m a bit iffy on:
- Some mobs have different attacks depending on size, spiders webbing, carp swallowing, panthers gulping, ect …
- Duct tape acts as straitjacket for a micro
- Vaccumes/Cleanerbots/Sticky gum/ Honey/ Webbing = automatically snags and cuffs a micro on contact, but can be resisted out of with a delay.
by Aces » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:11 am 
