[Demicus Maximus]-Command/Security ban/termination

[a bunch of moths in a swat suit]

Byond account and character name:cdb-Raelene Singh
Banning admin:Demicus_Maximus
Ban type: Banned from command, fired from security.
Ban reason:The ban from command was for arguing with Demicus over the terms of the aforementioned firings, the termination from security was(At least as far as I could tell) from arguing with the commander and stating an opinion that he took to be demeaning(The exact opinion being that silicon based life forms are not 'alive' like carbon based life forms are)
Ban length*:Permanent
[b]Approximate time ban was placed: I want to say it was around...12-3 HST(-10)
Your side of the story:In regards to the actual jobban, it was handed down because I was being belligerant with Demicus(A mistake that i don't really defend.) about the Captains ability to fire over what I perceived to be a relative slight. In retrospect it was a dumb thing to do as they were just doin their job. The permanent termination from security came at about the end of the shift, I had been arguing on and off with Prime, the HoS(the first argument was over me pointing out that he had a weapon visible at green, to which he responded with counter accusations about me spending most of the time since his arrival banging followed by reprimanding me for reminding him, the second was the previously mentioned bit about Raelenes Opinion.).
Edit: I forgot about this when writing but it seems pertinent, I did join back as HoS the next round, however that was based on my presumption that things worked here the way they do on other servers(Where only CC can fire and IC demotions are just for 'that' round).
Why you think you should be unbanned: Well, I don't necessarily think I can at all defend myself in regards to the command jobban, I was being a dick to Demicus over something that wasn't there fault and should've just taken my punishment. The demotion however, I feel was entirely unjustified, it was pretty literally handed down by Prime because he felt I didn't respect him due to said opinion and thus he didn't want me working under him. Which I don't really feel is a just reason to do a full termination.

[Scree]

I remember this being discussed in adminchat. Normally, being an ass ICly and receiving a demotion during a shift isn't something we'd care about - the part you mentioned in your edit is the most relevant part, actually.

Consider a situation where someone, having just signed up as a security officer and been fired from that position as a security officer, do you really consider it believable that someone at central command would stand up, thump their desk and say "promote that woman!"
Really, if it wasn't for that, there most likely wouldn't have been any jobbans involved. Normally things like this are done on the honour system and as long as people roleplay out the consequences of their actions then there isn't really any OOC action to be taken. Hell, Scree's got stuff in his character records to say that CC don't like him being HoP or captain - not that his loyalty is questionable, just 'cause he's a freaky alien thing and they don't want to chance it as a matter of policy in case the implants don't work on him.

As an aside, some of the more hardcore players don't like jumping a new character into a head role at all until they've played for a decent amount of time in subordinate positions as they don't feel the character has "earned" the role just yet. Naturally, this creates a lot of tension when someone comes along and keeps leaping between various head roles no matter how many times they keep getting demoted or reprimanded.

[a bunch of moths in a swat suit]

I remember this being discussed in adminchat. Normally, being an ass ICly and receiving a demotion during a shift isn't something we'd care about - the part you mentioned in your edit is the most relevant part, actually.

Consider a situation where someone, having just signed up as a security officer and been fired from that position as a security officer, do you really consider it believable that someone at central command would stand up, thump their desk and say "promote that woman!"
Really, if it wasn't for that, there most likely wouldn't have been any jobbans involved. Normally things like this are done on the honour system and as long as people roleplay out the consequences of their actions then there isn't really any OOC action to be taken. Hell, Scree's got stuff in his character records to say that CC don't like him being HoP or captain - not that his loyalty is questionable, just 'cause he's a freaky alien thing and they don't want to chance it as a matter of policy in case the implants don't work on him.

As an aside, some of the more hardcore players don't like jumping a new character into a head role at all until they've played for a decent amount of time in subordinate positions as they don't feel the character has "earned" the role just yet. Naturally, this creates a lot of tension when someone comes along and keeps leaping between various head roles no matter how many times they keep getting demoted or reprimanded.

Well, again I rejoined based purely on a presumption that things worked here as they do elsewhere, I had been playing Raelene mostly as HoS until that round(It was full and i figured a round as an officer wouldn't hurt.), if the presumption is that characters are contracted in to a specific role I can see why it'd make sense to not be jumping around period(Although that's kinda not ideal, since it means if you play as a job that only has one slot and it's full you're SoL for that character). I'm probably getting redundant, but most places I've played have made a distinction between being dismissed during a shift for whatever reason and being fired from a position, with the latter being something that only CC officials or similarly higher ranking lot can do. Again, the rejoining was entirely my bad based on not having seen this kinda thing in action, it's not exactly explained anywhere either, y'know? But it's my bad and I apologize for that.

[Demicus_Maximus]

I do feel I may have been slightly in error there. If I had been thinking, I would have simply banned you for a couple hours and told you to come back when you'd relaxed, rather than put up a permanent job ban for command which really didn't solve any problems.

I for one think undoing the headban is in order. But I stand by the IC actions, as your character really had been highly argumentitive and indeed insulting to command staff at the time.

Give it a day or two, then you can play in Security again. But remember the lessons learned from this incident. :3 As for the ban, lifting it is not up to me alone, so that will have to be decided by others still.

[a bunch of moths in a swat suit]

I don't deny being argumentative, though I didn't ever really insult any heads. At best I expressed an opinion that Prime took offense to

[Aces]

I do feel I may have been slightly in error there. If I had been thinking, I would have simply banned you for a couple hours and told you to come back when you'd relaxed, rather than put up a permanent job ban for command which really didn't solve any problems.

I for one think undoing the headban is in order. But I stand by the IC actions, as your character really had been highly argumentitive and indeed insulting to command staff at the time.

Give it a day or two, then you can play in Security again. But remember the lessons learned from this incident. :3 As for the ban, lifting it is not up to me alone, so that will have to be decided by others still.

Actually if you're the one who made the ban, you have the right to accept appeals for it. You just can't deny appeals; only express how you don't think someone is deserving of one. Supervisors and I, the community owner, can deny ban appeals or override your decision if you accept an appeal and we're like "why the hell would you let this person back".

It is actually preferred normally that the banning admin be the one to accept the appeal, as they were the ones usually with the most details of what happened. I don't know if this is clear enough in the ban appeal rules section but I can make it more clear if I need to.

[Aces]

I wasn't present for this ordeal, so, Demicus, if you don't have a verdict by tomorrow, or Scree/Joan doesn't decide first, I'm going to pass my own judgement. We've made this person wait long enough I think.

[Aces]

Appeal approved, so next time you're on, if you're still job banned, ping an admin and point them to this thread.