[JerTheAce] Hoodoo - Toxic Behavior

[Aces]

Actually, here's more context. Sorry for multi-post. Even though I can edit posts in here, nobody else can, so it feels like cheating if I do it.

It turns out that the lying alone wasn't the only incident. You had a later outburst at Amaya which triggered the Discord ban and actually landed you a blacklist from any appeals. You were also having an ongoing shit show with Thranos.

I'm going to attempt to elaborate on events after the incident that led to your ban, or at least, I am going to try shedding some light on what was happening in the background.

I'm kind of beating a dead horse so I apologize, but I want it to be fully understood. I first of all don't see any reason for him to lie. I can never know if he truly said the things he did, but let's first assume that did in fact happen. I think Thranos truly and sincerely forgot about it, and I've learned what kind of trouble occurs when you apologize for things you didn't do, so I think it's fully reasonable for him not to apologize for something he thinks he didn't do.

But, then let's pretend Thranos knows full goddamn well what he did and has actually been lying to me this whole time. If it feels like I'd be willing to forgive him while I haven't forgiven you, you'd be right. I think Thranos said something stupid in the heat of the moment and has been embarrassed about it but after initially lying about it he's even more embarrassed and also fearful about having to lie because he knows how I feel about liars, even though that isn't who he is anymore. That feels like a double-standard, doesn't it? Why would I sooner forgive Thranos's possible lying when I won't let go of your lying?

Well, I said it back in August.


Also, so you understand a summary my sentiment at the time.

[Aces]

I suppose what I am getting at with all of this rambling is that does it even matter what Thranos said or didn't say anymore?

What I would like to see happen is I'd like to see you and Thranos putting this entire thing behind the both of you and to never speak of or reference it again.

What I would accept happening is you two getting into one of your usual spats but then one of you swallowing your pride and going, "You know, I can see I'm upsetting you, and that's not the goal here" and either try to get back on track for an ongoing debate, or to back out of the debate entirely until cooler heads prevail.

What I am worried will happen is that this appeal gets accepted and you both go right back to being shitty to each other. Thranos regrettably still has a personality wherein they get very indignant when they feel they have been wronged. Hell, I had to ban them from the Space Engineers server for this reason. However, they don't seem to lie to me, as even when I confronted them directly on what they were doing, they told me to my face how they felt about the situation, and then ate that coming ban with pride that I cannot help but admire somewhat. But because you lied, this could all just be sweet talk to get back in and then immediately resume being a problem.

[hoodoo]

@Thranos: Again, I am sorry and I really fucked up in the way I treated you. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive my actions. I will not quarrel with you again, ever.

It doesn't matter to me what happened in the past to me anymore - I think that is being missed in this discussion. I felt justified at the time, but two wrongs don't make a right. Allow me to make that point now; I ended up saying things just as hateful as anything alleged right to Thranos. I have no justification at all for feeling aggrieved. I'm not going to pretend I was some victim, because removed from the situation by several months I could easily see what a shitbag I had been.

For that, all I can do is sink to my knees and ask for forgiveness - this is the best that I can think to do. If there is more you want, just ask and I will do my best to provide.

Aethirshero was sitting next to me IRL when the conversation in question happened, and I suppose they still have their own feelings on the matter independent of my own. Really, that just shows the insidious nature of holding on to things. Here we are, a year later, and just posting this thread has dredged up so many toxic feelings in people. There could not be a more obvious slap in the face to me that I was in the wrong - proof that I hurt everyone with my bullshit.

That's why I'm here. I want to move on and be a better person. For me, that involves getting unbanned here and clearing up the legacy of hurt I left behind.

[Thranos]

And yet this appeal alone, even without your return to the Discord or community proper, has resulted in my accusation again, and being blocked by someone after being called a liar.
I'd still like to know why nothing was said to any staff or any parties involved at all about what they claim, and why they instead waited until now, when this entire clusterfuck is being dug up and paraded around.

[Aces]

Not related to Hoodoo's reply, but I wanted to clarify something with my own post.

Thranos regrettably still has a personality wherein they get very indignant when they feel they have been wronged. Hell, I had to ban them from the Space Engineers server for this reason. However, they don't seem to lie to me, as even when I confronted them directly on what they were doing, they told me to my face how they felt about the situation, and then ate that coming ban with pride that I cannot help but admire somewhat. But because you lied, this could all just be sweet talk to get back in and then immediately resume being a problem.

I am not implying anything regarding Thranos's rightness or wrongness in this given scenario. That's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that in spite of how pissed they were, they didn't lie about something. They did things I was upset about, they did these things in protest of choices I made, but they were up front about it for better or worse. They still got banned over it at the time, but those frustrations have long since been resolved.

But, moving on for now.

And yet this appeal alone, even without your return to the Discord or community proper, has resulted in my accusation again, and being blocked by someone after being called a liar.
I'd still like to know why nothing was said to any staff or any parties involved at all about what they claim, and why they instead waited until now, when this entire clusterfuck is being dug up and paraded around.

There really isn't a damn thing we can do about Aethirshero or in fact there's nothing we can do about taking back what stupid things may or may not have been said. I'll be honest Thranos, I think you did say something stupid and you sincerely have no memory of it.

I say stupid shit all the time and end up taking it back or forgetting outright. Whether or not the accusation was accurate is no longer relevant. I just wanted to stop fucking hearing about it. Like, there's a guy on Eka's who fucking hates me because of something I did 10 years ago that I have no memory of. Their name is KAI. I bumped into him on YouTube one day like "oh hey KAI I remember you lol how you been dude" and they fucking blew up at me over something horrible that I apparently did to them but don't recall. They won't forgive me even though I have no memory of the ordeal, and I'm not about to apologize for something I don't even think I did, so I understand where you're coming from Thranos.

On the contrary we have someone like Caligator who also fucking hated me, except I was able to chat things out with that person. Again, even though I had no memory of the ordeal, the way they went about it was more like the way Hoodoo seems to be trying to go about it now. Basically, I did something wrong to Caligator, and I don't fully remember what it was, but I know that they were upset, but they also recognized that I'm not that person anymore who did those bad things, so the past becomes irrelevant.

If we are to have resolution, that is what I would seek. To claim something did or didn't happen is an injustice to somebody and I frankly don't know who is getting screwed by that. Drama happens, and it's going to happen in the future with other people. What separates mature adults from sniveling children is the ability to work past that drama.

[hoodoo]

All I want to do is bury the hatchet. I sincerely believe it will not be unburied because I have taken steps to change who I am.

I have done my best to represent my genuine feelings, and taking steps to contact those with additional concerns directly through PMs. I believe I settled the matter with Amaya and Bites the day after I was banned, though again all I was able to do was apologize to them and promise to do better in the future.

It was my mistake to not anticipate that I'd need to resolve my dispute with Thranos first - this was not intended as a slight. I just wrote the original ban appeal in the scope of the day I was banned, which mostly involved Ace, Amaya, and Bites. I hope that what I have written since then will satisfy those concerns.

[Aces]

So Thranos isn't going to forgive you, needless to say. Can't say I blame them. Aethir's PM to them really just hurt this appeal's chances, as they have now involved themselves in this too.

I frankly don't give a shit what Thranos did or didn't say, though.

Let's hypothetically say that he did say something stupid; it's so far in the past and he is so vehemently denying it that he obviously does not agree with the statement that was made so it's not likely he's going to keep saying that. In that scenario, basically, I'm telling you to get over it. You seem to grasp that, but now Aethir is getting involved too.
Now let's hypothetically say that he didn't say something stupid; it's so far in the past and the human mind is actually really terrible at keeping memories organized. Somebody else said something and Thranos got mixed in by Hoodoo's memories because they were having their own ongoing shit show. They never said "neck yourself" or anything alluding to that, but somebody did, and that identity is lost to time. In this scenario, Thranos is literally innocent and this is all a horrible misunderstanding that needs to stop.

Either way, the end desire is the same. It needs to stop.

To reference what I said earlier;

I'll be honest Thranos, I think you did say something stupid and you sincerely have no memory of it.

He was not happy about me saying this and gave me a good scolding in DMs and then blocked me before I could respond, so I'll talk here instead. I did not specify what that "stupid thing" was, and deliberately so. Why? You two liked to argue a lot back in the day, and boy, your arguments got ugly, no matter how much either of you might try to deny it. I myself have accidentally mixed in different people with an argument they had nothing to do with. In fact, there's at least a few ban appeals here that boil down to a mistake in identity.

But that's not the point. Like I said, I don't care what Thranos did or didn't say. It's not that I don't care because "noose yourself faggot" isn't deserving to be punished, rather I don't care because it's such an old ordeal that wasn't handled correctly when it happened, and now details are too muddled to go back on and handle fairly without serious risk of punishing an innocent party.

So here is my compromise. I'll accept the appeal on one condition.

If this "noose yourself faggot" stuff gets brought up again, ever, at all, and I find it traces back to either of you (and I will), I am just going to ban you again and be done with it. I am also going to ban Aethir, assuming that Aethir is in agreement to this suggested resolution. Why do I threaten to throw both of you out for this? Because I'm tired of hearing it. Furthermore, Thranos is tired of getting blamed over something that, in his mind, he truly doesn't believe he did, and me even insinuating that he might have said it is infuriating to him because he knows it would be wrong. I mean, I would be pretty pissed off too if I was accused of doing something like that, and I would hate even entertaining the idea that I might have, because it doesn't sound like something I would do. I would get very upset about people bringing it up, because I would feel helpless to defend myself about it when deep down I sincerely don't think I said anything like that.

Conversely, if by some insane reason Thranos goes full Illuminati false flag operation and somehow convinces his own friends to talk shit about himself just to get you both banned, I know damn well I'm going to find out about it, and you know what will happen to them. (Really, I don't think Thranos is the type to do that, but I have to cover edge cases just in case you're worried about somebody trying to abuse this policy.)



So, Aethir, Hoodoo, are you both willing to accept that risk? That if this shit gets dredged up again, you're both gone. Hoodoo, I honestly still don't fully trust you, so by Aethir acting as collateral, there's some insurance that you will keep to your word. Again, Aethir needs to agree to this, or I won't do this.

[Aethirshero]

I have no intention of talking about any of this again. I'm not the kind of person who likes conflict, I avoid it wherever I can. To be honest, I hadn't even thought about what had happened until yesterday, when I found out about this appeal and it dredged up some nasty memories.

I just want this to be done with and in the past, I don't want to think about it any more. So I agree, Ace. I give you my word that I won't talk about it to anyone, ever, on pain of ban for the both of us.

[hoodoo]

I couldn't ask for anything more, Aces. It's a painful issue and one that caused me to make way too many awful fucking decisions. I'm not looking to dredge it up, and I wasn't really even intending to bring it up in this appeal for exactly that reason. Our relationship got so toxic most likely because we both honestly believed we were in the right.

That's why I came to the conclusion that moving on was the only option. And that's why I had to become the kind of person who doesn't hold on to this shit. Needless to say, this is clearly my only chance so I understand the burden is on me to prove myself. I will accept those conditions.

[Aces]

I'll let this sit for a bit longer in case other admins or community members have something to say.