[DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

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[DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Iroquois Pliskin » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:04 pm

Byond account and character name: cafaling/Cheri Rifler
Discord ID: Balding Steven#1548
Banning admin: Demicus Maximus
Ban type: Discord and Server
Ban reason given: Continued failure to comply with global rules 5 and 6, regarding constantly causing trouble, a disregard for other players, and continuing to bring private/IC matters into public. This most recent incident appearing to be an attempt to get another player in trouble with the admins for their actions, rather than deal with the consequences of playing the game in an excessively antagonistic fashion. Furthermore, they were caught lying to the admin staff in a public rant on the main Discord channel. Additionally, this incident comes mere days after being banned for meta-grudging, indicating that they do not intend to change this behavior.
Ban length: Permanent
Approximate time ban was placed: June 1st, 2019 - 2 AM EST
Previous appeal: Posted on June 20th, 2019
Your side of the story:

I stand by my description of the specific event that I mention in the first appeal, and how my own hotheadedness led to foolish actions in the discord. Rather than reiterate that, I'll cover something a bit more big picture.

Believe it or not, I, and Cheri, am not always snarky and snide, but oftentimes it may appear that way even though I've toned it way back. Before, and during my ban, I spent time talking with people about the appeal of RPing with me, what they dislike, what they would prefer to change. Some people didn't really give me anything solid, and that got frustrating. I have all these admins telling me that I'm a problem, but when I ask people who I've interacted with extensively, they seem almost reluctant to say anything.

However, I did get some stuff. Without giving names, (and if these people feel comfortable outing themselves on their own, then I'd love to have community input opened up for them to do so) one of the more common responses was that part of Cheri's appeal was the contrast of a harder, unfriendly public face, to a much more friendly, happier private presentation. It's exactly what I was really aiming for, and to know that at least some people appreciated that goal, that it was in fact realized, made me happy.

Obviously it wasn't all so positive. A couple people told me, on many occasions before the ban, that they hated how confrontational I was with Sec. I did my best to tone that back, and by the time the ban came about I was really more of a boogeyman for Sec. I didn't really get arrested, but they all expected trouble from me. I know the events I went over in my last appeal did have to do with a run-in with Sec, but otherwise that was really it for solid months.

One person actually admitted they LIKED that Cheri was 'an asshole' but, you know, that's just one person. In all the feedback, though, and I lost count of the people I asked, anyone I could properly get in contact with that I could think of dealt with Cheri pretty regularly. In all that, I never had anyone who outright HATED her. I know who does hate her, but other than them, there was no one I spoke with who surprised me by saying, 'You're fucking awful and I'm happy you're gone.' Contrary to that I actually had people reach out on their own and check to see if everything was alright, and they even seemed upset that I had been banned. Some of these folks I hadn't even properly met.

Following my first appeal, and the hard no I got, I tried to reach out to Ace specifically and try to understand why he said what he did, why he called it disingenuous, and what made him think that. The friend request that would let me send him messages is still sitting in my pending list. I asked other admins like Resh, Catblaster, I think Slingblade, and maybe also Dragor, what I could do, how I should improve, generally got similar responses. I think I've sought out Resh's input the most while I was actually on the server and his input to me has always been that I was getting better. I didn't really have reason to doubt him, and I mentioned the ban came as a surprise, and I had been talking to him at the time.

I still don't know what Ace meant by 'my sense of humour' and how I was disingenuous. I'd have liked to find that out so I could address it here as well. My best assumption is that maybe he thinks I find shitting on IC authority funny, but that's not really the case. Maybe he thought my entire appeal was bullshit, and I was playing stupid to absolve myself of guilt, but that doesn't make sense, since I was admitting to the fact that I fucked up. I can't read his mind, he can't read mine.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

If nothing else, I'd like to demonstrate that I have the capacity to not be toxic/problematic/a shitter and that I have improved. The big issue with text is it can't convey tone, or any of the subtleties of proper, direct interaction. Those missing aspects make it hard enough to spot when people get annoyed at me, but it's made worse by the fact that so often, especially with Virgo, people seem almost afraid of speaking openly about their issues with someone. This isn't an excuse, or me trying to wiggle out of fuck-ups. It's an invitation for people who have an issue with me to contact me, privately or in public, and talk these things through. I cannot improve if I don't know there's a problem.

That said, I've no illusions that some people just won't mesh with me. I'm not gonna actively seek them out, because that just ends up coming back to bite me, but the environment of Virgo means that some interaction is inevitable. It doesn't make sense for me to just pretend they don't exist, and it's detrimental to the setting if you've got a situation, say, involving two Engineers, and they refuse to acknowledge the other's existence. I can seek to minimize interaction, but I can't stop everything.

Quite honestly, I don't even know if I'll start playing Virgo immediately if the ban is lifted, but I think it's wise to appeal so that in future, if I feel inclined to do so, the door is open. Yeah, I'm not constantly doing vore, and I'm picky about ERP, but the environment, and some players on the server, have definitely grown on me. I started playing mostly just to tinker with the engine, do some idle Engie shit, and I like to think I did much more than just that, in no small part helping to teach a lot of new engineers, and make sure there's a decent rotation of knowledgeable players so that no one gets burned out on the department. There's a certain pride I feel in hopping onto a server, and seeing a roster of Engies who all know what they're doing because you taught them.

I'd get someone to vouch for me, tell you guys that I've improved, but I've barely touched SS13 since the ban. I tend to get attached to one specific server, playing only there, if at all. I hope you're willing to trust me on my word alone. And because I'm gonna be dealing with players just as much as admins, should I be unbanned. I'd also like to ask that it be open for community input. I'll do my best to respond to any complaints and grievances.

Finally, plain and simple? I'm sorry. For causing headaches for players. Causing headaches for admins. For being a confrontational gremlin and deciding every little detail needed to be argued and debated. I would get so caught up in the moment and in the situation that even if it was just a fucking snarky comment, I'd decide this was the hill I needed to die on.
Todo: Not fuck up.
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Mr_Signmeup » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:22 am

I'll be honest. I do wish to see you back but however, there are things occuring on the server that your presence may or may not fuel the flames to. Your history with security is still prevalent in people's minds, specially my mind (and I'm sure you can guess what the issues relate too).

Atm, I'm neutral until the staff team can sort out some current issues in the server environment so that you don't end back up in square 1.
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Demicus_Maximus » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:46 am

I'm all for giving second chances... but this is not the second. I've found you to be an irritating, overly aggressive, and difficult to deal with pain in the neck.

...and yet I'm going to admit, a small part of me liked that. A little yang to go with all the ying. So no, I don't expect you or Cheri to be saints, that'd be boring as fuck. Just try to pick you "hills to die on" a little better this time, no?

+Support

However, I still would like a little more input from the other min's before I lift any ban.
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby DrYeehaw » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:51 pm

So, it has come to this.

The other admins know I have a soft spot for cafaling, I always appreciated their antics more than your average person, and they also know of my pleading towards Cheri to calm themselves. But it wasn't quite enough.

I did really enjoy a lot of the antics, and due to the time spent between the ban as well as outside circumstances changing, I'm going to support you on this. And I seriously do think you deserve one final chance.


But, you need to pick your battles man. I think with our conversations in discord that you GOT that, even before getting banned, it was just too little too late back then. Now you've had time to ruminate on it, and that's the basis of my support here. I want to see that yeah, you have made great strides, because I believe you have made the changes. But, the skeptical part of me wants to see it too. Just make sure to make the decisions that should have been done the last time around.
Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said..."I'm too drunk to taste this chicken."
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Nanaki » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:14 pm

Sometimes Cheri is a bit more abrasive than they should be, but I still found them a net positive to have around. My only concern is that Cheri has held grudges from past events, and my fear is that those grudges may possibly rekindle should they return on station. But I am confident that, with time passed and retrospection done, that those grudges can be let go.

Support.
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Iroquois Pliskin » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:57 am

Bumping this to show continued interest.

I've spoken to each admin privately about their concerns in some capacity, except for Demicus.
Todo: Not fuck up.
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Blakeryan » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:01 pm

Yes, You don't support me being an admin, but frankly, upon review, I can completely agree with most criticisms from that post, however, In the time since your ban, and in the time since OUR interacations, where MY rulebook HoS did not get along with your Engineer. I do recognize and have worked on since the past, in newer characters, I have used how poorly our interactions gone, with stories and acknowledgement that it could've gone better.

As Someone who wishes for their own pasts to be forgiven and for the current path to be recognized. I DO support your return, Even as Rifler. We all make mistakes, We all fall in love with our characters and do not think they need to change.

+Support
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Blakeryan » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:05 pm

Double post - Pressed enter after my cool support thing. My bad.

... and it takes a special kind of thinking and strength to accept criticism and redesign or re approach a character.
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Aces » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:30 am

I'm going to ask the admins to give a final review on this if they have not already, and post their opinion, as this has been sitting here too long.
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Re: [DemicusMaximus] cafaling - Discord and Server ban

Postby Mr_Signmeup » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:00 am

After further reflection. I approve of this appeal.
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