[JerTheAce] HzDonut - QC Ban

[Scree]

There are a few things that rubbed me the wrong way when you were here. The biggest one was that you were very loud and opinionated about the "correct" way to play the game, and in some cases were outright telling people they should do things that the admin team were trying to put a lid on because they were.. well, rather low-RP. At times it was impossible to separate your shitposting from your genuine opinions, which made it all the worse when you outright said you didn't consider it your fault if someone acted on what you were telling them.

This rubbed me the wrong way. It was one of those "I don't actually have a logical debate-club argument for this right at this minute in the heat of the moment but my gut is telling me that's absolute bullshit" things. I didn't realise exactly how it was bullshit or that there was an actual term for that kind of thing, but then I saw the news about the sandy hook shit where some family were getting harassed and kept having to move house because Alex Jones had called them crisis actors on TV, and Jones' defence boiled down to "But I wasn't the one that went out and harassed them! It wasn't me, don't blame me that some looney acted on the things I was saying!"
And my very first thought when that hit the news was "oh hey, it's that bullshit argument that donut made. Oh look, the just just called it bullshit. Go figure."

The short version is - if you're allowed back, the first whiff of you trying to steer the community onto something that it isn't, to make it unpleasant for the people that are our target audience, will have me wanting you out again. If you want to participate in our community, great. If you want to latch in and mould it to suit you, at the expense of those already here, then don't.

Oh, and for the record, the thing that flipped me onto the "yeah, apply the boot" side in the vote was the incident where you joined the game, after a new bulletin went out asking for crew to deal with a problem, and instead of actually joining and playing the game you ghosted and started shittalking people in deadchat. Can you honestly not see why players might not want you around if your contribution to a community includes "observe them playing and shittalk them behind their backs"?

[HzDonut]

Yeah, that incident you mentioned is one of the ones that I still cringe about the most when I look back on it. Half because I was treating people like shit, half because I honestly believed I was "BEING HELPFUL" despite the insults just because I made a giant pastebin post after the round and kept shoving it in people's faces like "THIS IS HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME, READ THIS AND NEVER MESS UP AGAIN." Just...oof. I really have no idea what thought process was going through my head at that moment to make me do all that. Well, okay, the shit-talking was clearly just me being a salty asshole over a round I wasn't even in, but the post after? No clue. Sorry about that nonetheless though.

Also yeah, I have no intentions of coming into the lobby wasted like I used to. Not only is it extremely embarrassing to read back through, but seeing myself hurl insults at friends is pretty awful. Sure, sure, I come to them after and they say it's alright, but that doesn't change the fact I still did it in the first place, y'know?

[Mr_Signmeup]

if this QC ban has made you realized these things. I think it's pretty much has done its job and I feel confident in allowing you back into the community. Though, if you start to slip back into old habits, I feel we, as the admin team, along with your friends and other members of the community should slap you across the back of the head to get you back on the straight and narrow rather than allow you to return to such a state. I doubt that will happen from the times we've spoken together but one can never be too sure until you're back in the community and have settled in!

tldr; Support.

[Molenar]

I don't mind giving people a second chance if they show improvement, but if this was just a second chance situation, it wouldn't be a QC ban. You've been banned and sent off because there were enough people that thought you needed to go, that we dropped the hammer on you that requires 75% of the admin staff to lift in the first place. I'll certainly respect the decision if this is lifted, but i can't feel the need to support someone coming back that pushed the community so badly when they were here before. One player that caused so many problems and to so many other players, the community is better for the lacking of the problem and keeping the rest happier in the absence of the one. No Support

[Aces]

I will allow this thread to run for one more week before making my decision.

[Turreus]

Since this is open to community contribution, I may as well weigh in while I still can.

Quick disclaimer; I can't say I had much interaction with Donut as a player on-station, I'm taking the statements made on this form to have been made in an effort on part of the posters to be as truthful as possible.

Having tried to administrate for a different server, I can certainly respect the need for Quality Control bans: some folks will continuously toe the line whilst having a clearly negative impact on one or more aspects of the server; nuisances that would almost certainly never leave if the policy were to constantly give more and more chances to start doing right. There's a point where a line needs to be drawn, and it's obvious the server as a whole would be better off without them; in my time there, I'd seen more than my fair share of incredibly toxic players, all of whom I was glad were given the boot.

Something rubs me the wrong way about this particular instance, though:

As I've been lead to understand, the ban was applied shortly after their "last chance" ultimatum, which i feel to be a bit unfair; banning them that immediately doesn't offer that chance to improve they had been originally offered. Based on VerySoft's account, it sounds like they actually were taking the opportunity and making an effort to behave for once. That being said, it sounds like giving them time to reflect may have helped them, even if i think it was slightly mistimed.

Additionally: based on what the folks weighing in from Citadel (at least one of which being a game administrator) are, it sounds like they actually have done a decent job of not acting as they previously have here. We can't say for certain whether these improvements are sincere at the moment, but I reckon the only way we'll find out is by actually letting them have another go.

I guess to join in on the gaudy coloured-text that folks like to use during ban appeals; I'd like to greentext Donut's objective to get back onto the server.



And besides; if this turns out to be a mistake, undoing it won't be terribly hard. If they turn out to still be exactly as toxic as when they left the server, then we can simply hit the button and bar them again, this time with the comfort of knowing there's no reason to ever have them back.

[Iroquois Pliskin]

I'd like to voice my support for this. Donut and I had a lot of exchanges before they were banned, both bad and good, but overall I liked them, and still do.

I don't really have much input beyond Supporting this unban.

[Demicus_Maximus]

I'll +support it.

[shophaune]

I support this, if it counts for anything.

[JoanRisu]

I have read through this thread and found that, for those that have bothered to participate at all, you are supported and considered to be making an effort by the majority. What helps is that people who have had a problem with you are speaking for you on your behalf.

Now, the following is to ensure you understand where I am coming from with this and the appeals process in general.

A huge degree of the appeals process is being able to demonstrate a dollop of empathy towards the community you participate in and being able to carry that moving forward. By that I mean, what can your behavior do to the community and the individuals you interact with? Taking the deadchat issue as an example, you demonstrate that the act is coming from a place of observer frustration and that people would find the commentary insulting, not to mention the act itself is an offense regardless of who you pointed it to. Good! I would like to see you build on that and say more (to yourself or the person, admin or fellow member, you are talking to) about how someone else might feel about it, like: "they probably felt like this was an attack or an unwelcomed advance on how they play."

There is nothing wrong with providing critiques. You have to ask if it is welcomed at all and it should be as much as possible one on one and it needs to be balanced with praise.

I will not pretend that you will suddenly not have problems again in the future. We all run into trouble and criticism every now and then. The amount of frequency just differs from person to person. Sometimes the violation just weighs too heavily than another. For the sake of this particular conversation, it was the frequency within a period of time that got to those that voted in favor of the ban; it all built up too fast to the point that it got heavy enough for the majority. Keep that in mind.

I also think it would be silly of us to impose a babysitter on you; you are not a child, you are an adult who can take responsibility for themselves, which what the process is supposed to ensure you are able to do.

What I will ask is you not get into the mindset of trying to win at everything, whether through the last word or by some other means. Arguments, if anything, are just analysis from a point of view. Sometimes one gets accepted over the other. It's okay for that to happen and sometimes you just need to drop the issue and move on. It is not as though this is the only place you can go to for a thing that we happen to not have. This is the internet, after all. Knowing and adapting to different communities is how you survive it.

If you can get a handle on the above, I am more than willing to give you your shot and support this appeal.