[JerTheAce] ChiefSpectre - Repairing the damages.

[ChiefSpectre]

Byond account and character name: ChiefSpectre
Banning admin: JerTheAce
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server, and skype chat.
Ban reason: Toxic Player
Ban length*: Permanent
Approximate time ban was placed (including time zone): Approximately one week ago.
Your appeal: I've been thinking about what to say here for a long time. How to convince someone that you're innocent when you're really guilty but for a totally different reason. I've realized that my mistake is my immaturity rather than trying to be sensible. Though I like to sometimes think that everyone is a little immature. For instance, my ban was placed upon a private skype conversation. With which regards were meager and toxic, but the conversation was a private one. And I am held accountable for it. I realize what I must change of myself for me to come back to VORE. It would appear I still have some growing up left to do. I had a long enough time to reflect on some very important details. So take what I say next with a grain of salt, because it's said from someone very tired of all of this.

I can say for myself that I am selfish. I thought only of myself, and let small things add up and get to me. I suppose that there's going to be a lot of flip sided thinking involved, and I wish for all of you can keep a open mind as I write this. From now on, I'll make certain that nothing will aggravate me into frustration again. Getting angry at someone is what got me banned. And that's a strange concept itself. You can get banned for not liking someone. Even if that opinion doesn't effect your RP ICly. I find that to be a double standard for this server. So my conclusion to being a responsible human being, I am not going to hate any of you anymore. But instead, kill you all with kindness. It's no longer a matter of grief, or pain that one player causes another, it's about owning up to it and getting results when all else fails. I just made myself laugh as I yet again was about to write something incredibly off base and would completely derail my point with doing "the blame game". But that doesn't get anything done. It takes effort, much more effort than what other people has given to come this far. Falling into mistakes is much easier then trying to fix the mistakes made. That's the point I was making anyway. I've sent my apology with no sign of recognition or return. I'm past being upset by it now. It doesn't matter just for the fact that I sent it. What really matters to me is if I am acceptable in the eyes of the admins, and host. Who's probably seen a fair share of toxic players. And I might as well been toxic. But if you take away the power that binds the admins and host, what would they have done if they were in my position right now? That's what I really want to know. Which I can assume it might be answered with their responses to this appeal.

Whenever I returned to my RP in FurC. I explained what had happened, to the RP host there, and he asked me this question, "Is it worth it?" Are you guys worth this? I was at a loss to what to say, and still am. It's as if the idea is there, but I can't exactly put it to words. I don't know how else to describe it. I do know that I love to RP here when I can actually RP here. And you guys are top notch people. What I know is a problem, and will get the most traction is this: I've already been banned two times prior to this in the same month. But no matter how I look at it, it'll always be there as a reminder that mistakes are made, and that they need to be fixed at the source of the problem rather than beat around the bushes. So I make this plea to you, Ace. Give me another chance. This whole ordeal is childish at best, and it really is a matter of responsibility and lack there of. Forgive me, so that I may forgive myself. The time for bickering is over, and the time for rebuilding what damages I've caused is here. What do I need to do now?

[Aces]

Ban appeal open for discussion among the community.

[Wickedtemp]

So... a lot of thought was put into this appeal. That much is plain.

However, it's rather vague. "Toxic player" is vague in itself. So I read through it to actually see WHY the ban was placed, but it's... really just:

"Getting angry at someone is what got me banned."
" I thought only of myself, and let small things add up and get to me."
"And I might as well been toxic..."
"... it really is a matter of responsibility and lack there of..."

I can't have an opinion on this one way or the other if I don't know what actually happened. Okay, so you got angry... And then what?

[rikaru19]

Personally, I think it's a tad much to sudden perma... Maybe lower it to a few months or a year? Clearly the issue here is excessive rage and salt causing huge issues. I know how that is all too well.

Then again the ban could be for a different reason, need Ace to clarify on this, please.

[HethDrakiel]

I have enjoyed the RP's that I have done with you, the biggest issue that I remember encountering was falling to the non-RP'd combat. Which does need working on, however I am new and unestablished in the community so my word is pretty much pointless, but still... You have said that you need to work on yourself which to me means you have owned up to the problem and want to work on solving it. The unfortunate thing is the day this was posted. I don't really know what else to say as I feel like a more full story is needed.

[Scree]

As someone who's had to deal with the grudges you've had with security, I'm wary of this. Especially considering the fact that even after being told to cut it out, you kept at it.

You completely disregarded (and in fact came off as rather snarky) what I had to say about your repeatedly aggravating Raeline in your last appeal - the part where I mentioned that if I were the warden and someone came back to fuck with me a third time after already having been tossed out of the brig twice I'd just perma them and call it a day? Your response was "I'm glad you're not the warden then."

I'll make it clearer. If I was the chef, and you came back into the kitchen to fuck with me after I'd tossed you out twice already, I'd probably stuff you in the gibber. If I was in cargo, I'd likely weld you into a locker, packagewrap it, and send you through the entire disposals loop a few times. If I were a scientist, you'd be feeding the slimes. Hell, the last time I was in that position, I took them to the airlock, put a suit on, and asked them "what do you suppose this button does?" while pointing at the cycle button. I wouldn't fault anyone for taking you out of the round by whatever means were at their disposal if you kept coming back to screw with them after they already sent you packing, provided they didn't just straight-up no-rp-robust you.

Because frankly it's irritating as hell to deal with someone who won't leave you alone after you've already made it clear you don't want to deal with their nonsense.

The icing on the cake is that the entire reason you were tiding it up and harassing the warden like that was because they'd made an arrest the previous round. An actually justified and lawful arrest as it happens, that you just assumed must be shitcurity because you didn't know the reason for it. What makes it even worse is that I'd called you out on that behaviour before when someone else was being arrested for a completely justified reason (that you didn't know because you weren't privy to the security or command channels as a miner) and you stood outside the window of the shuttlebrig screaming at them and demanding answers even as the person being arrested insisted it was okay.

We told you to knock it the hell off. You kept on grudging against Singh in subsequent shifts over frankly miniscule reasons, and Ace finally told you to knock it off when he spotted you beelining straight for the brig at the start of a new round to continue yelling and screaming at them for no damn reason. ICly? HR would get involved at that point and fire you.

Regarding the private conversation, it was passed on to me because the person you said it to read it as a warning about CDB and thought we should know that they were someone to keep an eye on - because "hey, this person is apparently driving players off" is the kind of thing they prefer to keep us abreast of. Even if we don't act on third-party complaints, we still like to be aware of problems between the players so we can keep an eye out.
Whatever your problem was with CDB, we asked you to drop it and let it go.
Messaging newcomers to the skype group within a couple of hours of them being added and spreading shit about this person you have a grudge against is not letting it go.

You talk about getting banned for not liking someone - that's not what we banned you for. We didn't ban you for your opinion. You say "even if that opinion doesn't affect your RP ICly" - if you consider running into someone's department round after round to harass them to be "not affecting your RP" then I'd hate to see what something that does affect your RP looks like.

If you can come back without any repeats of this sort of thing? Sure. You're welcome to come back.

But it's only a game. It's certainly nothing worth crusading against someone over. If you don't like someone that's not in your department, particularly someone in security, all you have to do to not interact with them is.. not go into their department.
Especially if it's CDB playing the warden. I rarely even see them leave the brig when they play that job unless they have to.

[Aces]

Messaging newcomers to the skype group within a couple of hours of them being added and spreading shit about this person you have a grudge against is not letting it go.

This is the point where you crossed the line into toxic player territory and got the permanent ban. This is directly what caused me to finalize the ban. People who do that are toxic to any community and the moment people start doing this (especially after many prior warnings) is the moment they need to be removed. This ordeal is textbook toxic player. The only choice is to remove you from the community either permanently or at least long enough to force you to calm down by forcibly removing you from the source of the stress that you are amplifying.

[ChiefSpectre]

Messaging newcomers to the skype group within a couple of hours of them being added and spreading shit about this person you have a grudge against is not letting it go.

This is the point where you crossed the line into toxic player territory and got the permanent ban. This is directly what caused me to finalize the ban. People who do that are toxic to any community and the moment people start doing this (especially after many prior warnings) is the moment they need to be removed. This ordeal is textbook toxic player. The only choice is to remove you from the community either permanently or at least long enough to force you to calm down by forcibly removing you from the source of the stress that you are amplifying.

Then by all premises, it will not happen again. I've spoken only to people who have been on the server regularly or is returning. You say that the community is against me and wants me banned, but the entire point of my dislike of CDB was based on other peoples' dislikes towards CDB.

I know for a fact that Kayleen was at the very least a old player of VORE. So you're entire argument of me messaging newcomers is absolute bull. Later though I discovered she was a ex-admin of the server. I also only have spoken to players on skype that share a similar opinion of CDB as me. Kayleen and Westfire would be the exclusions to that variable however. My behavior doesn't excuse my actions, but neither can permanently banning me for something that is solely opinionated. It's like getting banned for different political views, and religious beliefs. Everyone's different, and if you want a server full of CDBs, a person who I've discovered on other servers only plays "hentai characters" or "impossibly badass characters". Then go for it. I've invited a few friends to the server, telling them how awesome your server, and the community is. Despite my opinion of CDB.

The way I see it, permanently banning me over this entire endeavor is unfair to me, and the friends I have made on the server. Hell, you can ban me for a month and that'd be more than enough time for me to get over this if you think I'm not already.

[Wickedtemp]

Okay, so now that some of this has actually been explained in detail, I honestly can't vouch for a removal on the ban. My personal interactions with ChiefSpectre have been good for the most part, but now that I have a bit more information on the matter, a few good RP's don't really amount to much compared to all the negativity. But since I wasn't ever a 'victim' of said negativity, I'll leave it up to the people that were actually involved. If they're willing to give Chief another shot, then I guess I will as well. Until then, I'm on the fence, leaning towards 'No'.

And it's because of your comments made in this appeal.

"Then by all premises, it will not happen again." -> "..and if you want a server full of CDBs, a person who I've discovered on other servers only plays "hentai characters" or "impossibly badass characters". Then go for it..."

It sounds like you haven't learned.

[ChiefSpectre]

It sounds like you haven't learned.

What am I missing then? What's the point? I have sent apologies to CDB through every means, I've jumped through dozens of hoops for you guys from my point of view. What the hell do you want from me?