[PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

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[PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Mewchild » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:11 pm

Byond account and character name: Mewchild - Phi Vietsi, Ciphrom Markov
Discord ID (if applicable): Apos#8640
Banning admin: PontifexMinimus
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Permanent Ban from Discord and Server
Ban reason given: Repeated hostile and aggressive OOC behavior to the point where you are not welcome in the community. Constant attacks on other people as soon as they do something not going your way. This trend has continued for a while now and I have frankly enough. So, if you feel like you can change this, do appeal and show betterment.
Ban length: Permanent
Approximate time ban was placed (including time zone): Saturday, 21 September 2019
Your side of the story: I spoke with Dragor a short bit about this, just enough to get clarification on the ban itself, and one of the things he stated was: "The way you treat people when they're not of your opinion is very hostile, we constantly get complaints about this and I am sure we already talked about this and Scree and me had enough."
I wanted to take a few days after the ban to somewhat collect my thoughts, to think about the incidents that were mentioned as well, and I don't have a defense in regards to them. The ban reason is absolutely spot on accurate, I was an asshole, and have been being an asshole for long enough to garner negative attention from the staff team, and from other members of the community. There really isn't a "My side of the story" as it's summed up perfectly in the ban reason itself.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I can't offer much by way of reasoning, other than the fact that I'm going to do better. Being removed from the community happened out of left field, I was at work while it happened, and it felt like there was a pit in my stomach, once I confirmed that I was banned, via Nepox. I've been a dick for a long while, and being removed for it, being smacked down like this has made me keenly aware of the fact that something has to change- and it sure as hell isn't going to be the community. I need to adjust to fit it, not the other way around. This has been my main online space for the better part of two years now, and it deserves more respect than I've been giving it.
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Demicus_Maximus » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:22 am

I'd like to take a moment to provide related notes. We'll skip the ones that are from more than six months ago as I do not believe those are relevant at this time.

Still, as you can see this is not a single event. This is months of sustained activity. Now I will be the first to say I have seen some improvement during this time, especially after an incident back in April. But you get better for a few days then slip right back into old habits...

Told to chill when it comes to command/sec stuff. He attempted to demote the CMO while they were giving medical treatment. After the incident, Phi admitted that he was in the wrong.


Borderline self-antag: Keeps within the letter of IC law while still acting and perpetuating hostility. Character Phi is also toeing the line with suspension of disbelief: Uses minor charges and escalates violence, even towards heads of staff. This is repeat behavior and they were spoken to just one day prior. When the entire crew save for one or two exceptions is out for no-holds barred, admins-be-damned heads on a pike... Something is clearly wrong. They're being removed from Security roles for three days to clear their head and decide: Why they want to play Security; What can they do to keep the game enjoyable while still doing the role.


After being told by Kisuke to NOT call out Leigh out in global OOC for "killing people", they immediately switched to the radio and say the exact same thing in ((brackets)). Bro. Just. BRO. Are you beings of serious, comrade?


Sk1tz (as Iekin) challenged Apos (as Ciphrom) to a thunderdome duel. In response, Ciphrom charged pulled out their machete and charged at Iekin, resulting in them being disarmed of the machete and having it 'confiscated' and hidden away. A few minutes later, Ciphrom returned with a bat and proceeded to attack Iekin, resulting in Iekin reacting by attempting to disarm Ciphrom again, this time failing and being given severe injury that resulted in death. It was resolved ICly as Ciphrom was charged with manslaughter.


Miners requested spice and got it, and phi - as an ENGINEER with absolutely no need to get involved, started bitching in LOOC about the spice unrelated people got because it "involved people". When told to take his complaints about invents to the admins, he just logged off instead.


Also the straw that broke the camels back:
9:30 PM] Apos: Rykka, I'm going to be real with you
[9:30 PM] Apos: And I'm also going to be rude as fuck.
[9:30 PM] Apos: You need to get the fuck over it
[9:30 PM] Apos: Because you've been doing nothing bit bitch, moan, and complain about the changes being made to the xenobio lab since they started. Even when feedback was given, and you ignored it
[9:31 PM] Apos: Grow a fucking spine, and move on.


EDITED - Forgot to add the actual incident that set off the ban.
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Demicus_Maximus » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:11 am

Given the nature of the ban I'm opening this up for everyone to weigh in on.
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Wickedtemp » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:28 am

So.. kinda sucks, because I did like Phi, but for the time they were in Security, I ended up talking to Staff on more than one occasion over how they handled extremely minor infractions. Things like battery and misuse of comms were treated like high priority criminals. I actually asked an admin, think it might've been Scree or Resh, if it would be a good idea to put "Must inform the crew member of the charge(s) and offer a choice of brig time or any fines if applicable" in Security's SOP because it's something that Phi would just never do. They'd just immediately hound the guy down, the guy would see Phi screeching and sprinting their way and of course do the reasonable thing and try to get away, and then they'd run the nearly certain risk of getting a 'resisting arrest' charge and potentially 'assaulting an officer' if they tried to disarm the crazy man who chased them down. And I figured, hey, it'd probably be a net benefit for everyone if that was in SOP... Turns out it already was and it was just kinda being ignored.

The infinite escalation made reporting even small infractions an extremely conflicting choice on Tempest's part, IC, because shi (and I by extension) had no idea if Phi was going to escalate the situation and turn it into a field-execution or a beating. Some shifts, shi actually intentionally with-held information on a suspect that would have assisted Security in catching them, aided people in escaping Phi once or twice, and once attempted to just lead him in the wrong direction, because shi (and again, I by extension) would rather let the dude get away with a low level infraction than risk a shit-fest. It was overall a playstyle of "the book isn't for reading or following, its a bludgeon".

After they stopped playing Sec, I don't really think I interacted with them IC or OOC in any huge capacity. I don't think we had any issues on an OOC level, so in my personal opinion I think if they can make drastic improvements, I don't see why they couldn't come back, but I'll be the first to say that I don't believe my opinion counts as much as people who did have problems between themselves and Phi OOCly.
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Rykka_Stormheart » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:09 am

So, to give context regarding Phi's comments - I do recognize that perhaps I was taking the changes a smidge too personally. However, I realized that, and took a bit of space to distance myself and think on it. Phi's comment was... extremely hurtful, to say the least. While there *was* legitimate criticism there, it could have been delivered far better than how it was.

However, given I've heard and can see he has a history of issues with the community, and a number of people I've spoken to on the offhand would agree that Phi's behaved like this for a while.
I've also spoken to people that left the Discord/community server and they've stated Phi has had a history of doing this for years, too, but given that the person that said that IS, to the best of my knowledge, on the ban list, I'll disregard that unless it's allowed.

Regardless, based on the stuff that's listed here on the post, and his actions, I'm going to have to go with No Support.

I apologize if that causes any hurt feelings :c
I just don't see how allowing them back would be good for the community, or what it would add to the community as a whole, given they have a clear and consistent track record, and I haven't seen any change from them (although, I will say, I've only been here... two months? So I don't know if what I've seen counts in that regard).
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby VerySoft » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:17 am

So to say it right out of the gate, I'm friends with Phi.

I don't treat friends any differently as far as wearing admin pants goes, or at least, I try my best not to.

But I gotta say, it always comes as a bit of a surprise to me when people don't get along with Phi. I've seen the notes come in, I've seen that people have complained about him, but I've very rarely been around for anything that warranted admin action either way with regards to him.

I've seen him around plenty. He roleplays well usually, I've even seen him work to reign in overzealous security people who are marching off to break up what's pretty obviously scene stuff on a few occasions.

Now, obviously I've just not been around for many of the things this ban was in regards to.

After being told by Kisuke to NOT call out Leigh out in global OOC for "killing people", they immediately switched to the radio and say the exact same thing in ((brackets)). Bro. Just. BRO. Are you beings of serious, comrade?

Particularly stands out as a giant what the actual fuck. I'd have given you at least a temp ban over this. That's just like, highly disappointing to have heard happened. It seems so out of character of what I know of you.

So, while some of the rest is relatively minor stuff in my opinion, there's more than enough there that this ban seems like an inevitability based on the noted behavior.

Now. I think that when he's cool, Phi has a pretty good mind for playing things to the server's atmosphere and intention. There's certainly good there, but as you yourself said. Something's got to change if you're going to continue on.

I think the capacity to change is in you, and so I'd support you coming back. You've got friends who are invested in the server, who I'm sure you would miss playing with, and you do -usually- get along with people. But under no uncertain terms can this toxic bullshit continue if the ban is lifted.
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Nanaki » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:11 am

As Security, Phi has always been rather strict, a stubborn streak of sorts. While this is good and well in some situations, especially in the situations that deserve it, it usually is paired with a bit of inflexibility that resulted in some tense encounters with crew. Basically, when Security is in the right, this behavior is an asset. However, when Security is in the wrong, it is more of a liability. Although, when Phi's time in Security declined rapidly in his last month or so before the secban, timezone differences have largely prevented me from interacting with him much, so, I cannot get a full gauge on what changed about him during that time.

However, in my opinion, since Phi has not been back to Security since his secban, I would say Phi's IC actions in security is a bit less relevant.

After the fact, while Phi had improved his behavior, there have been times where he seemed to... for lack of better words... lash out in OOC. I feel like in most of these cases, from what I have seen, have been a strong sense of wanting to do what is right for the community, resulting in flared tempers if he feels that someone is doing something detrimental for that community. Unfortunately, I feel that while Phi means well, the lashing out ended up doing more harm than good. My personal recommendation for Phi, is that he should stop trying to fight battles and wars. if he feels that someone is in the wrong in a situation, calmly letting the other party know without anger tends to go far. If that does not work, than it probably is best to get an admin involved. That is what the admins duties are.

I am going to give support for this, if for nothing else, Phi is self-reflective enough to change himself.
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Wickedtemp » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:36 pm

9:30 PM] Apos: Rykka, I'm going to be real with you
[9:30 PM] Apos: And I'm also going to be rude as fuck.
[9:30 PM] Apos: You need to get the fuck over it
[9:30 PM] Apos: Because you've been doing nothing bit bitch, moan, and complain about the changes being made to the xenobio lab since they started. Even when feedback was given, and you ignored it
[9:31 PM] Apos: Grow a fucking spine, and move on.


...Like Soft said, a lot of this behavior surprised me. But now I think its just because since we were friends, whenever it happened, I didn't take notice or I wasn't reacting to it as I normally would, had we not been friends. I think a lot of people are in the same situation. Looking through the notes, I'm even more surprised that you weren't banned sooner, especially after the 'bar incident'.

After being told by Kisuke to NOT call out Leigh out in global OOC for "killing people", they immediately switched to the radio and say the exact same thing in ((brackets)). Bro. Just. BRO. Are you beings of serious, comrade?
Like Soft said, this easily could have netted you a ban.

Borderline self-antag: Keeps within the letter of IC law while still acting and perpetuating hostility. Character Phi is also toeing the line with suspension of disbelief: Uses minor charges and escalates violence, even towards heads of staff. This is repeat behavior and they were spoken to just one day prior. When the entire crew save for one or two exceptions is out for no-holds barred, admins-be-damned heads on a pike... Something is clearly wrong. They're being removed from Security roles for three days to clear their head and decide: Why they want to play Security; What can they do to keep the game enjoyable while still doing the role.
- If this is about the bar, it likely also could have rather easily been met with a ban.

Sk1tz (as Iekin) challenged Apos (as Ciphrom) to a thunderdome duel. In response, Ciphrom charged pulled out their machete and charged at Iekin, resulting in them being disarmed of the machete and having it 'confiscated' and hidden away. A few minutes later, Ciphrom returned with a bat and proceeded to attack Iekin, resulting in Iekin reacting by attempting to disarm Ciphrom again, this time failing and being given severe injury that resulted in death. It was resolved ICly as Ciphrom was charged with manslaughter.
I knew that Ciphrom apparently beat someone to death with a bat, but knowing the context around it makes it a bit worse. It sounds like Ciphrom got off absurdly easy for what could have been a legitimate "well they just jumped the guy with a fucking bat so I think the intent to kill is there. Murder, char-ban"

With just the IC actions, keeping in mind that IC actions are just OOC decisions made by the player in the end.. I was on the fence, but the DM's pushed me over. I'd say its ''two-faced'' if I wasn't sure if this behavior was mostly kept hidden from his friends. Some instances weren't, but I think the aforementioned friendship made it easier to ignore it. It did for me, at least. If that's how you talk to people that aren't your friends, then I don't really know what else to say other than I don't think I can support the appeal anymore. Not after less than a week.
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Nanaki » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:42 pm

I forgot to mention in my original post, but, my biggest concern is that you have aggressively gone after other players in the past, to the point it would be defined as metagrudge. Leigh being the only big example of this off hand where I have numerous examples, but there have been other instances (possibly Azura Chitin?) that have flown under the radar.
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Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Mewchild » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:56 pm

For context on the incident with Leigh, it wasn't me going after them. There was no spite or malice, and they hadn't literally killed anyone. The comment was made in response to banter over the general comms. As far as Chitin goes, I realized a while back that I'd been having a large number of negative interactions with him, and made an effort to avoid him. As far as I know, Leigh and myself have no ill-feelings towards one another, the last negative interaction I recall with her being where she ended up getting me killed due to xenoarch shenanigans.
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