[PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Moderator: Game Admins

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Iroquois Pliskin » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:24 pm

Hello from Banned Camp! Player of Cheri Rifler here, I'll do my best to be civil.

I have no love for Mewchild. Players can attest to that. Admins can attest to that. There's a long a storied history to that, but running through all of it would probably go over the character limit. Back when Mewchild tried to apply for admin I expressed nascent concerns of a similar nature. I don't think Mewchild is outright malicious. That's unlikely, given the fact that there are people he does genuinely get along with. I do, however think that he's narcissistic, manipulative, and overbearing, both IC and OOC.

In any scenario that gets major attention, he will try to portray himself as a victim, or as a hero. Even when it makes absolutely no sense. About a year and a half back, maybe earlier, another character compliance disked Phi without IC or OOC consent. Rather than AHelp, he let the situation escalate to the point that a charban was applied, then used the event to gather sympathy. When I raised questions as to why he didn't AHelp, he clammed up, calling an admin immediately. When an officer was teasing him over some friendly fire with a taser, he ordered them to stop talking about it, and when they didn't attempted to arrest and demote them. They resisted, shooting him with disabler beams. Bad idea? Yes. He shot back with lethals in response, justifying it as thinking they were Pulse Rifle lasers. No one even questioned it.

He's heavy handed with his punishments, to the point of absurdity. I once pointed out that some debris damaging the station was a direct result of an expedition he headed the previous few rounds. Rather than shrug it off, he ordered me to stop, and when I did, proceeded to have me arrested for 20 minutes, apply a full comms injunction, and terminate Cheri's employment for the shift. The demotion wasn't legitimate either: He all but ordered the CE at the time to give him the go ahead, and when I managed to convince her to reverse it, as well as went the next step up the command ladder to lift the comms injunction, he and the HoP tried to stonewall it. Unless I'm mistaken, it took admin intervention. Another example, one not involving me? There are plenty of times where a prisoner is annoying him and he'll outright just abuse them. One scenario involved him using HV mechanics to break a prisoner's legs, and then left them there. It took them almost dying of an infection before Medical noticed and saved them. What came of it for Phi? Nothing, as far as I could tell.

Should I have ahelped or talked to an admin about this stuff in the moment? Definitely. Will bringing them up now seem petty? Perhaps. Do these amount to hearsay? I guess, yeah.

Something more recent, something I know the admins know about, is since I got the discord ban, Mewchild has sporadically been shit talking me openly. About how I'm never coming back and I was banned for being awful. Took some jumping around and asking for full screenshots to confirm I wasn't just getting riled up over nothing. That's blatantly against the rules, and I suspect it contributed to this.

In conclusion? Even trying to be charitable, even trying to explain away his behaviours as human error and reasonable mistakes, those errors and mistakes too often happen at times that seem awfully convenient. But his actions with overkill charges can't be chalked up to mistakes. Breaking a prisoner's legs because they annoyed or slapped him a couple times is clearly intentional. Him ninja editing Rykka's xenobio redesign before it was even live, cannot be waved off as human error. No support.
Todo: Not fuck up.
Iroquois Pliskin
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:41 pm

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Iroquois Pliskin » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:34 pm

Doubleposting to fix a minor typo I missed while proofreading:

Iroquois Pliskin wrote:...he ordered me to stop, and when I did...


Should have been.

...he ordered me to stop, and when I didn't do so immediately...
Todo: Not fuck up.
Iroquois Pliskin
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:41 pm

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Thranos » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:34 pm

This appeal isn't even worth a shitpost.
Thranos
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:40 am

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Heroman3003 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:20 pm

This is a complicated one, for various reasons. I have had many interactions with Phi, good and not so much, with his best and with his much more negative side as well. I think as a player, he has two key issues and I just want to point them out first.

First being one most players with negative feelings encountered, and many others saw and is biggest issue. Usually people refer to it as being too much hardass or too strict as sec... But I think definition is more broad. I'd describe it as "Using minimal excuses for maximum action/retaliation". More broad primarily because it doesn't JUST apply to playing security or even Phi (as highlighted by Ciphrom incident), but, from my personal belief, may not even just apply to IC, but to a lesser extent to OOC too. Worst thing about it is that way too often it grows out of being a single isolated instance and rather becomes something of an 'ongoing issue', where previous 'excuses' used become used in the future to add up to pile of reasons why levels of retaliation used are justified, even if they aren't when situation is taken just for its own value, ignoring the past. I felt like I was at a recieving end of that at one point myself, where it continued IC and even somewhat OOC until I asked an admin to basically "Make Phi stopped", at which point that exactly happened, and I only went to admin because my own request of just stopping the whole ordeal was ignored. There are many other examples of this issue, lesser and, rarely, maybe harsher... But I won't bring it up because notes and knowledge of both admins and Phi himself probably all recall things that fit the bill of "Using minimal excuses for maximum action/retaliation".

Second issue I have had with Phi's behaviour is something I didn't see pointed out in this thread yet. And I think it connects a lot to the first one in a way that I will describe below. But its how they talk in relation to other players' bans. If a topic somehow touches a banned player/character, whose ban was either a result of situation involving Phi, or a situation really similar to ones Phi had with them in the past, there is often... Bragging tone I see to it. And thats really not a good sign. Even if the player deserved it, feeling proud about someone else being banned is a thing that paints one very negatively. Because being proud implies some actions that are to be proud of being there... And that in turn starts to imply that the player got banned not because of something they did, but rather because of your efforts. And while I will say, I do not at all believe its true for any situations you were part of, the way you position yourself when topic touches it, makes it seem like thats exactly how it went. And that paints you in much worse light, even if the player banned was banned completely deservedly.

Combined those two issues form one overall issue that can be best described as, in my limited terms, "Validhunting". But not validhunting for antags or such. Validhunting for 'shitters'. For players whose RP percieved as low, players that are troublemakers, and players that dont conform to your general feeling of station's 'flow'. That is one big thread that I can see running through pretty much any incident. And I can't say intent behind it was ever negative! If anything, intent for something of that type would be only to help improve the community, the standards. Then where's the issue? Issue is that way more often there is discouragement to players generally being there, and doing anything, rather than encouragement to change, improve, adapt and overcome their issues. Rather than intent to change the situation, I feel intent is to 'drive out the issues'. And in the end, however positive either intent is... It really should be left to admins. Thats another thing about situation, many of ones Phi is involved in dont seem to include admins being called upon from Phi's side, even when he's in the right, except maybe most things happening OOCly. Instead situation just escalates. And thats the issue. Resolving problem players should be left to admins, not the players themselves, even if they are doing great job managing the situation.


All that said. Phi is fantastic. He's great at roleplaying, he has great characters, he is great person to just interact with OOCly, and all around, as long as he's not on slippery slope of escalation, he's very enjoyable person to be around. In addition to that, I think of all people on server I've seen, he's one of most self-reflective and self-critical... When issues are properly pointed out to him correctly. I think issue in sec never was specifically with the fact that Phi was shitcurity, but rather this more overarching issue being present and causing it, and its that that needed resolving, not switching departments as a way to avoid getting into more similar situations as without core addressed, that would just make it happen less often.

Overall, while I was somewhat hesitant when I began writing this, after going through all the points I do feel more confident about it. I am, generally, in support of the appeal as a whole. Phi has shown great ability to improve and change, and he is great person most of time, so permanent ban feels rather unfair as of the moment. However, I do think that ban should at least run for a week from moment of being applied if only to give better time to properly consider and reconsider things said, by me, by admins, and by community members commenting in this thread. All of this is still mostly my feelings, but those are all the feelings related to Phi and his behaviours. I do think he can and will improve given a proper chance, with issues properly outlined.

P.S.: The 'straw that broke the camel's back' incident is an incident that I feel really is an outlier to all... And one where I'd actually probably end up saying something among similar intent at a later point, if maybe with less... blatant rudeness, if not for it being said first.
User avatar
Heroman3003
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby HzDonut » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:29 pm

Yeah yeah I know i'm banned from the discord at the moment but considering i can still play on the server where Phi could show up I'll contribute to this anyways in a really concise manner:

Any time Phi shows up, I leave. Why? He's a goddamn control freak, known for abusing prisoners whenever they're a bit annoying (in a disturbing manner), loves to stomp fun out of existence, has done questionable things drama-related IC and OOC i won't go into details about (but made me obviously uncomfortable), and in general just comes across as a total creep in-character to basically all of my characters no matter how hard I try to keep neutral and unbiased. His presence is horrid enough that if he shows up on virgo i hop over to citadel and vice-versa just to limit the chance all the fun gets sucked out of my rounds like a goddamn entertainment starved vampire just rose from his dust-caked coffin with some hangover cravings. Honestly I have no idea how I went for so long without reporting his ass to admins for the sake of a QC or something, maybe I felt like it'd get ignored due to my own past QC bans or some stupid logic.

Anyways I have no goddamn idea how the formatting of this ancient communication platform from bygone days works so forgive me if this comes out all fucked up but no support, none, zilch, zip.
User avatar
HzDonut
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:55 pm

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby HzDonut » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:11 pm

I forgot you can't edit on here. By "abusing prisoners" I specifically mean he'd sometimes use the HV mechanics to severely damage limbs or otherwise just beat the absolute shit out of them for being annoying; something I always felt was a bit too much of OOC anger leaking into IC considering how it was handled (kinda bragging about it afterwards in OOC like it was something to be proud of, like he got revenge or something).
User avatar
HzDonut
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:55 pm

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Iroquois Pliskin » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:16 pm

While you're hardly the topic of discussion here, Heroman, you were right there with Mewchild when Rykka's work was ninja edited.

To the matter at hand however, you spend the first half of your post laying out exactly what makes Mewchild such a problem... and then you just gloss over it, justifying your support by saying he's a good roleplayer, that his characters are fun and interesting. No amount of skill in writing or roleplay can make up for the behaviours you describe, much less justify overlooking them.

You say he's great to interact with OOC, but there are plenty of people, myself and Rykka included, who would disagree. Those of us who've been on the receiving end of his, in your own words, "Using minimal excuses for maximum action/retaliation" know all too well the dismissive, condescending replies we get if we try to talk to him about it OOC. If he even chooses to dignify us with a response beyond demanding we stop and calling an admin.

If he's so self reflective and self critical, why is it that over the course of 2 years his behaviours arguably only worsened? He had plenty of people tell him why they hated dealing with him as Sec, and he didn't budge an inch. I would say he doubled down, in fact. Way, way back, Mewchild and I actually didn't have any issues. Sounds like a pipe dream, I know. Back then, his behaviour was more limited, generally being completely inconsequential stuff like the occasional slaps or in the extreme scenario we see in the list of notes Demicus posts, first trying to hack someone up with a machete, then beating them to death with a baseball bat. The further forward we go? The closer to the present we get? The more common those extreme reactions and behaviours become. Beating prisoners up, killing his own Officers, flashbanging entire rooms of people over completely trivial things like headpats.

Even at my worst, I was just an asshole saying mean things most of the time. Even at my most overbearing, I simply asked people if I could do something instead of them so it would meet my standards.
Todo: Not fuck up.
Iroquois Pliskin
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:41 pm

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Nanaki » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:36 pm

One thing to take into account is that since the incident where the bar was flashbanged over a headpat, Phi has not played as security at all. He has effectively retired from that line of work, even after the secban wore off. As an engineer, Phi has mostly been a lot more subdued IC, with the main issues arising during that time period being OOC.

The Xenobiology ninja edits was partially my fault. I was wanting to clear the github in regards of edits to the surface for VerySoft's surface medical overhaul (because multiple map PRs that edit the same files tend to not play nice), and, I should have reviewed Phi's work more carefully (which was a bit hard to do since mapdiffbot was down) especially since, in the long run, it ended up causing more problems than fixing. I ended up paying the price for that, considering that I had to stay up for nearly twenty four hours to help sort out the issues caused by it.
Nanaki
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:42 pm

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Mewchild » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:08 pm

In regards to the ninja edits, as well, I'd openly stated a number of times during the development and building process of the new Xenobio the main change I would be making, namely removing the SMES unit and returning Xenobio to the research subgrid. Rykka herself gave input on it as I was working on the changes, and it only ended up being such a big change due to other mappers requesting I make other changes, as I was only working on it. This was no way, in no form, a spiteful "Fuck you" to Rykka, she'd openly known that the change was going to be made, even before the PR was merged. My attitude towards her after the fact was completely inexcusable; I was exasperated and more that a little angry due to how the changes had been handled, from DMing me directly, Pinging both myself and Ascian in Dev chat, and all but begging that the PR not be merged. This doesn't excuse my harshness towards her in regards to it, but it should give context for why I reacted the way I did.

In regards to Caffa and Donut's comments, about using HV mechanics to abuse a prisoner: This has happened literally once, and only once, ever. The prisoner in question was a micro who had been repeatedly biting officers every time they came close, removing their cuffs, trying to escape, and trying to break their cell to the point that they were put into solitary (and had both the pen and the stool removed). I broke their legs after roughly 40 minutes of this, an act that Resh was aware of. I then let Resh know that the prisoner had been injured in a scuffle, and they were immediately taken to medical for a scan and treatment. It was handwaved as "The appropriate amount of force to restrain a violent prisoner" IC, and was never spoken about OOC that round, beyond a few laughs with both Resh and the prisoner himself in LOOC. There was never any admin DM, and the event in question didn't even warrant a note.
User avatar
Mewchild
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:49 am

Re: [PontifexMinimus] Mewchild - Rule 6 Permaban

Postby Mr_Signmeup » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:19 pm

Mewchild wrote:In regards to Caffa and Donut's comments, about using HV mechanics to abuse a prisoner: This has happened literally once, and only once, ever. The prisoner in question was a micro who had been repeatedly biting officers every time they came close, removing their cuffs, trying to escape, and trying to break their cell to the point that they were put into solitary (and had both the pen and the stool removed). I broke their legs after roughly 40 minutes of this, an act that Resh was aware of. I then let Resh know that the prisoner had been injured in a scuffle, and they were immediately taken to medical for a scan and treatment. It was handwaved as "The appropriate amount of force to restrain a violent prisoner" IC, and was never spoken about OOC that round, beyond a few laughs with both Resh and the prisoner himself in LOOC. There was never any admin DM, and the event in question didn't even warrant a note.


Oh, yeah. I remember that. Getting bitten multiple times and getting the 'numbing' venom. They were really aggressive ICly but fine LOOCly (for the time being) but eventually, I think I had to ban 'em and then 24 hours later, they're found out to be underaged anyways and remained perma-banned, lol.
Reshskaskakss Seekiseekis: Chief of Security
User avatar
Mr_Signmeup
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 9:54 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Denied

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests