[Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby Aces » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:02 am

I'll tell you what I think about you.

What I saw was not somebody who wanted to help the community, or was vocal of opinions, or some other noble cause. I saw somebody who liked to bitch, kind of like what you said. I saw somebody who liked to bitch about players, about programmers, about admins, and about anything else they could find some flaw with, and not with any intention of helping or improving, but merely so you could echo chamber and feel all good about yourself that your opinions were shared by somebody else. Also like you said, hearing yourself talk. I didn't see somebody who cared too much. I saw somebody who didn't care at all about anyone aside from themselves.

It's hard to say what you were like roleplaying. If I ever roleplayed with you, the memory is overshadowed by all the trash talking you did in my admin chat, for which I initially expelled you from the admin team to begin with. Of course, as soon as I did that, you just immediately turned your rants against the admin team as well. This pisses me off especially, because the admins don't get paid. The admins are volunteers who sacrifice a little bit of their sanity and put up with people's shit no matter how valid or inane and try their best to make the experience of the server better for as many people possible at a given moment. When we decided that we didn't appreciate having one of our own who was actively and consistently trashing other players for every little mistake, I decided to take away your powers, because my attempts to shift your behavior were completely ignored. I know damn well I had spoken to you about your problem long before it even got you kicked off the admin team, much less banned outright. Since the behavior got worse after having your admin powers stripped, that resulted in a ban.

So I ask you, why should I expect an appeal to go any differently, when there have already been attempts to mitigate that behavior in the past? Because caring for this place and being toxic for this place are not mutually exclusive concepts, and I really don't give a damn how much somebody cares if they still behave as a toxic community member and gatekeeper that drives off new players, of which you eventually did. When I learned that players were leaving because of you, I had enough. There's things on this server that I care strongly about which even I can't alter, despite being host. Well, I could, because "fuck you I'm host", but I know damn well that doing so would generally upset a great deal of people, and even though I am so absolutely sure of my infallible genius (sarcasm), sometimes I need to just chill the fuck out and put my trust in somebody else, and when that happens, I choose not to worry about it.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby LiquidFirefly » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:45 am

Aces wrote:So I ask you, why should I expect an appeal to go any differently, when there have already been attempts to mitigate that behavior in the past?

You're right about a lot there, and I already shared the sentiment farther up. I was trying to impose my view of how shit should be, being as whiny as humanly possible, and simultaneously contributing nothing. Your view of me was valid. I was trying to speak about change without doing anything myself. I was horrible back then.

I think the biggest and probably only merit you'd see in this appeal is the fact that I'm apologizing, and admitting that how I acted was wrong, alluding to some kind of change. Completely unprecedented for the self absorbed gazer to admit fault. And then I speculate you'd sit there for two seconds, stare at the appeal, and then stare at the fact that I had to be banned to say any of this. It took nearly four months of ban from interacting with the community oocly just for me to admit that I was even partially at fault. I mean everything I said here. I wouldn't bother posting if I didn't. The only reason it took four months is because I genuinely believed I was right up until then. I've grown up just about as much as someone can in a few months, as a result of a lot of things. I don't think I deserve forgiveness, but I'm apologizing and asking for it anyway.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby JoanRisu » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:57 pm

For me in regards to these kinds of cases, it isn't a matter of the motivations that I look at but rather how one regards their behavior and what it does to those around them because in cases like these, it is apparent to me the passion and care the applicant has for the community, there is no question about it.

The concern comes from how they just apply it in a manner that comes off as abrasive, hostile, and very unhealthy as opposed to what those who study communications would call supportive.

That defensive behavior takes a while to accept that it happened. Moreso to admit for applicants such as yourself. I'm sure in the time you've been around, you've seen people who have left year or so prior re-apply to come back in and seen the way admins who have dealt with them in the past respond more positively and disclose how much they didn't like the applicant in the past in addition to noting the change in the way they speak and behave.

And I see change here. At the very least I see the steps to accepting that you were behaviorally in the wrong, by which I mean your motivations were okay as far as community passion is concerned, but your expression of those motivations were defensive, which would invoke a defensive response from anyone who was around you or on the receiving end. How this acceptance of responsibility will translate in the future should this appeal goes through depends on how you take those steps going forward.

In other words, in order to help you improve, I am going to give you the opportunity and support this appeal to give you those next steps.

Approved or not, it is just going to get harder from here on out because you'll be fighting some habits that will push on your self-discipline and people who are truly watching will be incredibly blunt about that, regardless of relationship. Keep that in mind.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby nerdass » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:37 am

no support for reasons that will not be made public, but have been brought up in admin chat, and to gazer in private.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby LiquidFirefly » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:38 am

nerdass wrote:no support for reasons that will not be made public, but have been brought up in admin chat, and to gazer in private.

I must respect your decision, however I feel those reasons are completely erroneous and irrelevant to the issues that brought about this ban.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby Aces » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:49 pm

I disagree immensely because it involves us being lied to.

And judging by your response in those private messages, everything you told me earlier about accepting responsibility is basically bullshit.

Strong -support. In fact I have half a mind to just reject this out right.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby LiquidFirefly » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:15 pm

Aces wrote:I disagree immensely because it involves us being lied to.

And judging by your response in those private messages, everything you told me earlier about accepting responsibility is basically bullshit.

Strong -support. In fact I have half a mind to just reject this out right.


I did nothing but accept responsibility for that decision. I never condemned you for wanting to punish me for it. I thought it was petty to bring up an old issue, sure. However, the only thing I said is that I don't regret it, and that in doing it, I was the only one responsible. I do regret being an asshole to you and your staff. I don't regret coming here early. In fact, let me post those logs. I don't care about people knowing my age.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby LiquidFirefly » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:42 pm

Underage discussion logs.png
Underage discussion logs.png (237.34 KiB) Viewed 2696 times

My birthday is October 7th, 1999. I'm 18 years old, I live in an apartment with three friends in Upstate New York. I work nightshift at a local bakery. I have my own car, I pay my own bills, I buy my own food. I am an adult, and over the course of the past year, I don't think that fact has changed all that much. This shouldn't be the thing to get held over my head.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby Scree » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:17 pm

I don't give a shit about your age since the time to give a shit about your age has passed.

The part that gives me pause is that little bit in the middle there where you outright state that if you knew of other underage people, you'd knowingly withhold that information from us, which is a breach of the rule about harbouring underage players.
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Re: [Not Available] Liquidfirefly - Permanent Discord Ban

Postby LiquidFirefly » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:21 pm

Scree wrote:I don't give a shit about your age since the time to give a shit about your age has passed.

The part that gives me pause is that little bit in the middle there where you outright state that if you knew of other underage people, you'd knowingly withhold that information from us, which is a breach of the rule about harbouring underage players.


Apologies for being ambiguous, you misunderstand. I would report the violation to the administrative team if there were an underage player that I knew about. The distinction is if the player had previously been playing underage, and now was not.
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