[JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby Aces » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:51 pm

banas wrote:I didn't start playing until after the ban was already in place, so don't have any firsthand interactions to go on or direct emotional stake in it. All I have is what's written in the previous ban threads. My opinion is really just a question to the admins:

Is there any possible offense anyone could commit that would warrant a penalty beyond a one-year ban and a by-the-book written apology?

Because if that's the appropriate penalty for the out-of-game actions and threats of real-world harm described in the previous appeals, I'm not sure what kind of behavior would warrant anything greater.


That I can answer. There is literally nothing DeepIndigo can say to make me revoke the ban. It's a futile effort, because I don't give a shit about his opinion or anything he says as it stands. I have zero reason to trust a damn thing he says.

What he has to do is manage to get somebody else I trust to vouch for him. Rather, he has to get several people I trust to do that, which, so far, is a thresh hold that has not been reached.
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby VerySoft » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:50 pm

I think that what DI did is about as bad a thing one can do, without actually following through and attempting to cause harm to people.

DeepIndigo wrote:As far as this, I really wish I could recall who it was, but all I really remember is them being only a few months out at most from their 18th, and 18 by the time I was banned, if that matters at all.


We have a zero tolerance policy on minors. Zero. Exposing someone who's underage to the kinds of things on the server, or on the discord could get a lot of people into trouble. Knowing they're under age, and not alerting staff, regardless of HOW underage, is not good. The courts, and discord staff won't care just how underage the person is should it get that far. Just that they are.

Further, you seemed ready and willing to engage in activities which would directly harm a member of the community, and you did this intentionally. I don't care how high or low on the totem pole they may be. That's entirely unacceptable.

The other stuff I think can be worked around. but these two things directly threatened the server as a whole, and an individual within it. The only ways this could have gone worse may have resulted in scenarios where actual law enforcement could have gotten involved. And you did this knowingly, and willingly.

I can respect your apologies. It's big of you to apologize. But I don't think I could ever trust you to not do something equally or more damaging in the future.
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby Vorrarkul » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:48 am

I have a rather simple question for you DeepIndigo: you know what you did, and how a lot of people felt about what you did. You know that even if you get approved back, you will be forever marked, forgiven perhaps but not forgotten. Even if you get allowed back in, I do not think that it will end well for anyone.

With that said. Why do you want to come back after all this time? What makes this server worth such a controversial ban appeal? Why not cut your losses and we (you and the server) both move on?
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby DeepIndigo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:42 am

Aces wrote:
What he has to do is manage to get somebody else I trust to vouch for him. Rather, he has to get several people I trust to do that, which, so far, is a thresh hold that has not been reached.


I've been trying to reach them to talk, so far the results are... less than fruitful.

Vorrarkul wrote:I have a rather simple question for you DeepIndigo: you know what you did, and how a lot of people felt about what you did. You know that even if you get approved back, you will be forever marked, forgiven perhaps but not forgotten. Even if you get allowed back in, I do not think that it will end well for anyone.

With that said. Why do you want to come back after all this time? What makes this server worth such a controversial ban appeal? Why not cut your losses and we (you and the server) both move on?

Put plainly, the community, I miss the RP I had here with a lot of you folks, I miss the friends I've lost, and this is the one server from which I've gained the most enjoyment. I don't know that I could enjoy any other. But more importantly, if there's a chance at being forgiven by those who haven't expressed such a sentiment already, I want to go after it. I tried to move on, it didn't work. Literally any time I try to roleplay elsewhere, even now a year later, I just get depressed and feeling sick over what I did here and can't bring my self to do it. This still weighs on me. For that slim chance of forgiveness, and for my conscience, I want to come back. I need to come back. It sounds goofy and cliché I know, but it is what it is.
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby DeepIndigo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:11 am

VerySoft wrote:I think that what DI did is about as bad a thing one can do, without actually following through and attempting to cause harm to people.

110% agreed.

VerySoft wrote:
DeepIndigo wrote:As far as this, I really wish I could recall who it was, but all I really remember is them being only a few months out at most from their 18th, and 18 by the time I was banned, if that matters at all.


We have a zero tolerance policy on minors. Zero. Exposing someone who's underage to the kinds of things on the server, or on the discord could get a lot of people into trouble. Knowing they're under age, and not alerting staff, regardless of HOW underage, is not good. The courts, and discord staff won't care just how underage the person is should it get that far. Just that they are.

At the time I considered the underage person a friend (contact since then has gradually tapered off and stopped), they trusted me in telling their age, I didn't want to violate that trust, especially with them so close to their 18th, as dumb as that surely sounds. I legitimately didn't think it would ever come up, and thus forgot about it. I know that wouldn't hold up to discord or the courts. This is really more of a "why" than an "it's okay because", since, ya' know, it wasn't okay, still isn't.

VerySoft wrote:Further, you seemed ready and willing to engage in activities which would directly harm a member of the community, and you did this intentionally. I don't care how high or low on the totem pole they may be. That's entirely unacceptable.

As stated, agreed.

VerySoft wrote:The other stuff I think can be worked around. but these two things directly threatened the server as a whole, and an individual within it. The only ways this could have gone worse may have resulted in scenarios where actual law enforcement could have gotten involved.

Yeah, not exactly my finest hour or best set of decisions.

VerySoft wrote:And you did this knowingly, and willingly.

I was not thinking right, a lot of salt, some on behalf of other people (who hilariously enough turned around and did similar things to what they'd accused Aro of, to me). That's not an excuse though. What I did can't be excused, probably not forgiven either but there's always a slim chance.

VerySoft wrote:But I don't think I could ever trust you to not do something equally or more damaging in the future.

Like I said before, I try to learn from my fuckups, so I don't repeat them if I can help it. I've got a good few people in the ss13 community who've known me about a decade now and can attest to that. People I staffed a server with for a few years. Hell, one of the current VS staff was among the longest frequenting players on that server.
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby DrYeehaw » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:40 am

Alright, seeing how this has gone on for now the third time without my input, its time I ought to at least speak my mind and at least try to play ball for the underdog here.


I've known indigo for I'd say about 18 months, ICly I had actually known them far, far longer as they're one of only four folks that actually remember Duke from his really early days. They played a lot of interesting characters and while I didn't interact with most of them, it was still neat to see someone so consistent. We talked some on DM's and the likes, but besides sharing memes, we didn't get to know each other that well at the time.

Then the Aronai thing happened.

Me and another mutual friend (which I think DI knows which one I'm referring to because it hurt them way harder than it did me) suspected that the only reason this came as news to us when it happened was because, being honest, it was one of the stupidest ideas I had ever heard of and we would have stopped it.
A lot of people quit talking with DI after that happened, and I can't say I blame 'em. Being honest initially I stuck around with DI to make sure they wouldn't hurt themselves or something else concerning. They hadn't anticipated the consequences of their actions at the time and it hurt them dearly. In a moment, almost every friend they had had left and who could blame them? It was something crushing for them at the time and honestly it was downright depressing to watch.

I witnessed the first and talked with them on their second appeal, even going so far as to suggest ideas for them on how to pursue getting back in the good graces with the community. But at the time, DI hadn't yet learned from their actions, I felt like I was basically leading a horse to water on the idea of letting it be known they saw what they had done was wrong. Every possible person still seemed like an enemy to them and I'll be honest in a way I haven't even told DI yet, I didn't think you were ready to come back either time. And being honest, had it been up to me I would have said no to you coming back. There was still that element left behind that had yet to learn from your actions and still somehow blamed others for what had happened. That even though what you had done was wrong, it was still someone else's fault.


Then they went off the grid for three months. Being honest it was concerning with how they had been before, I was legitimately worried about if they had done something rash at the time. However, when they came back, it was like witnessing a new person. I know to outsiders and others that what they did was reprehensible, and it was. Had I not witnessed so many others telling them how boneheadedly stupid they were at the time, I would have joined right with them. However, while the distrust and dislike of others has died in their return, one thing hasn't.


Indigo loves this server a ton.


Now I'll be honest, that can mean much of anything. There was a time where I was a fanatic about how incredible this place was and would have practically died for it, but I never had all the tales and stories they had, which feels more akin to listening to your grandfather pull out his old army chest than it does a game you both play. Tales of meeting new people and all the fun times they had still make up a lot of their reminiscing. The "Are you sure this server even has a place for you anymore" doesn't apply for them, because honestly, I think they just miss this place more than anything. And they're fully aware they wont get the same experience. Characters get retired, friends leave and the likes, and times change. But for them, many of their close friends were here, and a few still are. Not to mention, every stranger is just a friend you haven't gotten to know yet. Being able to redeem themselves for one more chance in their eyes might give them a chance to rekindle such a flame, or at least maybe start over. This new indigo is more down to earth, they know they're not going to be getting the same kind of attention as days of old, but they yearn for it, they hunger for it.


I support Indigo coming back. They're not the same person they were a year ago. More calm and collected and actually able to see what they did wrong now, their lesson has been learned with losing contact with a lot of close friends. Betrayal breeds disaster, and they're far from being out of said disaster, but they keep coming back. I ask that you give them one last chance before you throw away the key and lock the door, because there's good in everyone. Im sorry if this hasn't been the most coherent plot structure ever, but take it from me. As someone who has talked with Indigo for the past year, the amount of self improvement has been remarkable, and i'd like for a place like this, where we do our best to not judge what people are into, be willing to offer a second chance to someone willing to fix themselves.

Thank you
Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said..."I'm too drunk to taste this chicken."
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby DrYeehaw » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:52 am

Because I didn't cover it in enough detail. Indigo's actions cost them nearly every friend they had here, something which hurt them quite dearly at the time. But months of self reflection has changed them as a person, seemingly now only wanting to try and right their wrongs. They're sincere in their actions and beforehand, it had felt like you would need to force them to do the right thing. But now I know they want to bury the hatchet and start over again.

However there's no way of showing that without them coming back. I can talk talk talk all day long but talking cost us the Sudetenland, so the only solution is to see with your eyes. Honestly, I think a simple compromise can be given, give them a month and if they do anything wrong, simply revoke the rights to being on the station. Simple as that. Indigo isn't a guest coming back, they're on probation, like a prisoner able to be reintroduced into society. Keep them banned from head roles and let them try to develop possibly from a fresh start. They're determined, I think they can do it and prove to be a model player when their heart is to it.
Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said..."I'm too drunk to taste this chicken."
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby Zalvine » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:38 am

Mm. I kept quiet on this a while, as for all intents and purposes. This is, as it ever will be when brought up. A mess.
So. I am going to lay this out quite simply.
Charges against:
Harboring an underaged, no matter how underaged.
Attempt to forcibly remove someone from station.
Said attemot nudging RL ideas, and manipulating others jnto jt.

These alone, are on the side of 'Should be gone forever.' I don't think that needs saying, simply.

On the flip side. They have grown to acceot their lesson and learn from it. So, that's a good thing.
Now they're here begging for forgiveness, and a chance. This time with understanding.

Mrh. It leaves me unsure what to do, to be frank. On one hand, easy enough to say no and just let it fall to the wayside. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. The acts pulled more than warrent the ability to do so, and I hold no negative opinion of all those taking this approach. I am tempted of my own view, that this place is not going to be terribly receptive if accepted anyway.

On the other hand. I can't say I have had to deal with someone so determined to restore their name. It's been stated here, and they have to know they're not going to be walking into a welcoming committee. That much is evident from the simple dismissal, and some hostility. Yet, here they are persisting despite this. Despite past two rejections, and having finally seeming to have learned their lesson.

They'd have an uphill battle in the rain during a monsoon if they return, but they seem to wish to go forward with it. I have to say ultimately, I give my wah stamp of support of their appeal. I believe people should have another chance, and they seem genuinely determined to clear their name and make a good impact.

That said....I am of the mind of A second chance. If accepted, and if it goes anywhere near cabal again, my hammer will come down faster than an inquisitor hearing 'heresy.'
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby Vorrarkul » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:33 am

Since my post may not have been clear, I am currently withholding judgement.
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Re: [JertheAce] DeepIndigo -Permanent Ban

Postby Mewchild » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:38 am

Some good things have been posted since I left my last message, and DI's reply to me hit a lot of the concerns I'd laid out. I'm changing my standing to neutral, for the moment. I want to see how else this plays out. From your replies, you seem genuinely, truly regretful of the actions you took, and true remorse is a hard thing to fake.
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