[Mr_Signmeup] Seekey/Ceekey - Toxicity/Ban Evasion

[Mr_Signmeup]

Byond account and character name: S/C/eekey

Banning admin: MrSignMeUp

Ban type: Discord/Server/All

Ban reason: Posting medical diagrams of dicks outside of NSFW, Calling out other players in the discord for examples of poor roleplay, making jokes about furries, openly insulting the furry community, and shitposting on the forums, Ban Evasion, Toxic OOC Behavior.

Ban length: Permanent

Approximate time ban was placed (including time zone): 2017-10-02 (5 months ago)

Your side of the story:

Someone in my last appeal told me to try again in a month, so here I am. I'm going to take the sage advice of taking things as seriously as I can. I'm not going to try and justify anything, I'm just going to say sorry. I didn't want to take anything seriously because I was ashamed to admit I had done anything wrong. I was skirting around rules I didn't agree with because I really believed a more aloof atmosphere would be more fun. SS13 is about fun, but fun is a subjective thing. Perhaps a serious story is entertainment enough, and while I think I've succeeded at that in character, I've failed to give people respite to enjoy the laugh. I exerted myself much too harshly on others OOC and failed to recognize the lines I was crossing because I only listened to the 50% of people that actually liked me.

This server is genuinely the only one I've enjoyed. Haven't played since about a month after my ban. I've loved all you guys. I don't know if it's believable but I had good intentions in mind, I just wanted to bring fun to people and create something enjoyable, but the jokes were at the expense of a major portion of the audience, which is about as bad a mistake as you can make. It's not worth the schism, even if I'm personally hard to irritate. I've grown to try and read social cues better, but like in my very first appeal I even alluded to how difficult that is for me, especially in crowds. To keep things short, because I tend to be so socially oblivious it felt like I was under attack, rather than being communicated with. I've had a lot of alone time and I feel like my perception has improved since.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

I've grown to try and read social cues better, but like in my very first appeal I even alluded to how difficult that is for me, especially in crowds. To keep things short, because I tend to be so socially oblivious it felt like I was under attack, rather than being communicated with. I've had a lot of alone time and I feel like my perception has improved since.


The decision is yet again yours, I understand it's a hard privilege to reintrust thrice, but it's been long enough that I've generally calmed down even in the real world as well. I won't bore you with the details but as much as I tried to be in my last appeal I'm not the same person I was. Thanks for dealing with my shit.
-Ckey


Once again, posted on Seekey's behalf by Mr_Signmeup.

[Mr_Signmeup]

This is up for community discussion. For those that do not remember, Seekey played 'Director Director'. Or 'Director Steelbarrow'. He also played a marine character who I forgotten the name of but was popularised during the Golden Empire event for eating crayons.

[Kotetsu]

With those ban reasons, no thank you.

[nerdass]

seek professional mental help

[cameron653]

I can't remember exactly everything that was done, nor can I remember it too clearly (which is understandable, seeing as it was 5 months ago), but I can't remember hearing anything positive about Director Director.

So instead of speaking of what I recall, I'll speak of the ban appeal itself.

Posting medical diagrams of dicks outside of NSFW

I don't have context of this one, but it's quite obvious that this isn't allowed and could easily get someone questioned at work. Sure, you shouldn't be looking at the discord for a fetish server at work, but there's a reason we have NSFW channels.

Calling out other players in the discord for examples of poor roleplay

Yeah... No. This is an extremely dickish thing to do and extremely toxic. This can quite quickly cause people to leave the server/discord, due to being pointed at and called "poor" or "bad." This could quite easily land someone a ban solely by itself.

making jokes about furries

Really not that bad. Quite a few people make jokes about furries and I don't see a huge issue with this, provided they were actually jokes and not attacks on people.

openly insulting the furry community

It should go without saying that when you're in an almost entirely furry discord that insulting the furry community is a bad idea.

shitposting on the forums

Again, a bad idea. This is a surefire way to get yourself forum banned if being done in ban appeals/applications/etc.

Ban Evasion

This is a major issue. If you're banned, it's quite obvious that you're not wanted in the community and have to go through the process of making a ban appeal and seeing if people would feel fine about having you back. Ban evading is a real good way to never get an appeal accepted, as it shows that you don't really care about what you were banned about in the first place and want to circumvent the process of proving yourself. In fact, taking a look at your last ban appeal, I can immediately tell you didn't take the ban seriously, as you multikeyed to "pop on for giggles which I didn't quite get." This screams out to me that you popped on to get people's reactions to seeing DD.

Toxic OOC Behavior

Just... No. Toxicity can easily result in people leaving the server due to the atmosphere. This is what I mean by saying that I "can't remember hearing anything positive about Director Director." Again, in your last appeal, you went through each ban reason and commented on them, saying what you thought about them. This is all good, but you didn't comment on the toxicity ban reason.

I've grown to try and read social cues better

Ah, that's good to h-

I've had a lot of alone time

...Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that alone time is the last thing you want when it comes to being able to read social cues. More time spent with people means more experience. Less time with people means less experience. I'm not trying to turn this into an attack on your personal character, but I highly doubt that you've grown to read social cues better when you immediately contradict yourself by stating that you've had alone time to do so.



With all that in mind, I'm going to have personally say no

[Ceekey]

Dear Cameron; Context piece by piece.

Posting outside NSFW: A playful argument about how gonads work, in which I posted a diagram. I genuinely didn't think it counted as not safe for work, as a medical diagram of anything seems fairly safe to me. It was also relevant to the jest at hand, being proof that gonads aren't sacs but production glands. It hadn't even crossed my mind a medical diagram could be porn, because it isn't.

Calling out others: I was explaining Ketrai's promotion was undocumented and a lot of things didn't have ties to any story development and just sorta happened. I don't remember making a big deal of it and I don't think I would have. It was more constructive criticism than calling out, or at least I thought it was.

Jokes/Insults: Making jokes could be miscontrued as insults by some, hence the 'openly insulting the furry community' bit, though I will admit that when someone didn't enjoy the humor I'd get a little irritated myself because I felt they took it too seriously, often going on tirades about how 'it's just a character how can you be offended by something that isn't real'? Something I kinda get, or at least respect more, is that sometimes people are their characters. It's not the coping mechanism I'd personally choose but I suppose that's what sympathy's for.

Shitposting on the forums: Nobody really talks to you head on until it's too late, shit gets said behind your back and I didn't think I stood any chance of being unbanned so I didn't try. I just accepted the end of the line in the way I was accustom to.

Toxic OOC: I was never toxic about RP, not once. I was an asshole to people in the discord, cracking jokes and dismissing them rather than trying to be reasonable because I had it in my head that the people that liked me were the only people that would ever like me and that THEY were the ones being unreasonable, when it's more a 2-way street.

And finally, alone time: This might sound counter-intuitive at first but I needed time to think about all the pieces by myself on my own, without the yes-men that kept in contact with me. How am I supposed to discuss such things when I'm banned from the discord and forums while rumors spread and the only ones that stay in contact are the ones that disagree with the ban? How are problems and practice supposed to be enacted when the forum is a slow cage where appeals go to die? Everyone talks about it in private, gives their criticism in a concise way with a simple 'no'. Nobody's here to tell me what's gone wrong, I have to figure it out for myself through a little psychology, how other people are compared to me and precisely which signals I missed in the long-run.

I haven't gotten the chance to play with you, but people apparently liked my characters. Really I would've moved on if people didn't talk to me about it so often. I'm sure it would've been a gay old time if we had the chance and I regret that we didn't have meaningful interactions, and that this is the only side you've seen of me.

Regards, Ceekey. And sorry for suddenly living in germany, I didn't want to bother Mr_Signmeup with proxyposting for me. I hope this isn't an offense but a show that I'm willing to communicate honestly.

[Demicus_Maximus]

Ban reason as stated, not including the ban evasion:

Repeating the same behavior that got you banned last time. Posting NSFW outside of NSFW, being a dick to people in public channels, once again attacking the furry community, kinkshaming vore on a vore server, calling autistic people retards... TONS of toxic behavior. And right after already being banned. I suggest reading over this handy guide in the future: http://www.ss13.eu/wiki/index.php/Guide ... iding_bans by Demicus_Maximus (HeadAdmin) on Mon, October 2nd of 2017

You got un-banned last time because you convinced me I had been wrong to ban you. That I had made an example of you publicly and used the hammer instead of reasoning. And then you turned around and did exactly the same thing less than a month later. Not exactly endearing yourself that way. If anything makes me think I was right the first time.

Making jokes could be miscontrued as insults by some, hence the 'openly insulting the furry community' bit, though I will admit that when someone didn't enjoy the humor I'd get a little irritated myself because I felt they took it too seriously...

Publicly calling them "Disabled" and "Autistic" is hardly humorous, it was straight up being mean. You've a long history of refering to people as 'autistic', even shortening it to 'aut' or 'auts' after you realized we were checking for the full word.

Reading over your appeal so far, I'm seeing deflection and downplaying, not what I want to see in an appeal: actually being sorry and having changed.

[cameron653]

Mm, the context is extremely useful.

Posting outside NSFW

If the medical diagram was on topic, that's less on an issue. Still, a medical diagram of a cock & balls might not be porn, but it can certainly be seen as NSFW for those not in the medical industry. There are quite a few risky things people post, so this isn't /too/ big of an issue, but should be avoided in the past.

Calling out others

I really don't know what event led up to Ketrai being promoted, but questioning an IC event like that is much less severe than what I was suspecting (a la Kinkshaming.)

Jokes/Insults

Knowing exactly what kind of jokes were made would be useful, but I doubt it'll be able to feasibly get them in a timely manner. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume they weren't offensive/purposefully offensive. Getting irritated over people not finding the humor in a joke is bit of an issue, but it's good to see that you understand how people could get offended by a joke.

Shitposting on the forums

See, that's an issue. The unban appeals exist for a reason. Going and shitposting on the forums and not actually trying in a ban appeal is a good way to shoot yourself in the foot and make sure that your future attempts won't be taken seriously. Seeing as this one is being taken more seriously is a good sign, though.

Toxic OOC

As said before, I've never seen you in game, so I can't vouch for your character, nor can I vouch for your discord presence due to having extremely faint memories of you other than hearing that you were (emphasis on were) having a negative impact on people. From what you're saying, however, it sounds like you have/had an issue when it came to acting on the discord more so than the server itself, in which case it sounds like you were mainly being banned from the discord and a server ban was applied as an additional bit. Being an asshole and dismissing people will quickly lead to people despising you, especially when you act like you're completely in the right and they're completely in the wrong. Again, it's good to see that you acknowledge this.

alone time

Alone time can be useful, especially when away from the people that will agree with you no matter what, but I still have some doubt that you've grown to read social cues better to a large degree, especially when cut off from the community as you were. Getting banned from the discord & forums was ultimately due to your own actions and your own actions alone. Having both of those avenues cut off and made inaccessible will understandably make learning what you did incorrect nearly impossible.

Hopefully people that have interacted with you and have more to go off of than I do will reply on your appeal, be it positive or negative feedback.

As for the time being, my stance is staying as it is. I may change it depending on what others have to say about you on the appeal.

[Ceekey]

To Decimus;

I'm sorry, my personality is like that. I'm very brash, loud, and playful. It might not be recognizable in text but I make light of everything. The specific jokes about furries in question were things like, 'We don't use the word MATE because that's for ANIMALS!' I had thought it was such an inane 'supremacist' point that nobody could take it seriously, and so when it seemed to be a problem I got upset because it seemed overbearing and ridiculously strict.

And into my next point: No I wasn't shortening it to 'auts' to evade your eye, I'm not that cunning. Auts, spergs, and 'disabled' are all basic insult words in the internet dialect I was in before I came here, used in the same context as 'faggot' was in 2007. I legitimately have Autism, we've talked about this before with Vorrarkul who said he wasn't that comfortable with it so I didn't use those words anymore. I switched to the incredible and way better 'knave', which is now my favorite word.

I'll admit I don't like the style of thinking, I think offense is a sign of something lording over someone. I instinctively want to brute-force it out of them, even if it's not the smartest thing to do. I come from a morbid culture, where instead of feeling sorry for bad things that happen, we make fun of them until they don't hurt anymore. It's hard to change from something that hard ingrained, especially when I'm having fun and not paying attention. It's not because I think someone's weak as much as it is that I don't want something so dumb to have the power to change their mood.

I loved just how open shit was. I liked that I walked in and people could just straight up fucking eat me and it was just there. There's no sense of shame, there's no depression about it, it's just fucking wild that's how it is on Virgo. Someone like Director walking in and being completely culture shocked was hilarious to play, because every aspect of the community was different. Sexuality was never discriminated against, racism was based on predation, the AI tries to eat you for fun and people can shove you in bags all the while emailing dickpics into your eyeball. I make fun of it not because I think it's stupid but because it's crazy good, and it boggles me to think that others still hold onto this notion of offense when I'm fully embracing it. I really think it's just a difference in internet culture, the way that cancerous channers such as myself handle things and the way that, a tight knit furry community might operate which tends to be more friendly and accepting.

The chan clan and furry federation being at war for eons doesn't help the barrier much. It's hard to get used to that style of community and it's that difficult transition among the chaos that leads to this sort of thing. I know that you specifically want to hear some sort of change, that there's some admittance to having been wrong and just flipping a switch but I don't want to lie to you to just get out of an appeal process. I want an understanding, it's something that may have to be worked toward. I think I have a better grasp on it now having spoken to a few people about it as well as sort of putting myself into the shoes of someone that's grown up getting shit for every aspect of things they find fun (Furry and Vore is a pretty deadly combination to bring up to people that aren't in on it) I can see why people would be on the defensive, so I think I have to be cautious about approaching people. The idea in mind was to just not really use the discord much, that was where it messed up for me. I love talking to people and I'll be anyone's friend but I'm a hopeless shitposter in crowds from the high energy atmosphere. Might have to just have a handful of friends and be quiet for once. I've tried it in other places and it's worked wonders for me, shit never starts and things are generally better overall.

-Ceekey

[SilencedMP5A5]

gonna be short 'n simple

i've honestly seen worse people straighten their act out.

and seekey, despite being rude to me a couple times if i remember correctly, still managed to make me chuckle pretty consistently when interacting with him on station.

so yeah i mean i'd give em a second chance if they actually went out of their way to appeal despite being binned from like everywhere related to us tbh.