Shiak Te'Zuhl Ban

[Shiak Zuhl]

Byond account and character name:Digitex
Banning admin: PontifexMinimus
Ban type (What are you banned from?):Week long character ban.
Ban reason: Continued antag shenanigans, like getting on security nerves, attacking them, boasting about a murder and |then| fleeing when you knew full well you are being hunted.
Ban length: 1 week.
Approximate time ban was placed (including time zone):Eastern Standard 8:08 AM
Your side of the story:So. I'm fairly new here. I came here because I was informed that king shaming and the what not wouldn't happen. I did some hard vore with an officer, yada yada, brutal predation, dead officer. Tossed on officers gear out of some semblence of old days where I didn't like to leave security gear on the floor, planned to cyro with it. Headed to medical, called medical, no med staff. hacked my way in, resleeved officer, cyro'd officer in teleporter next to medbay. After trying for like five minutes to get into the damn teleporter, which for some reason wasn't letting me, I poked security to inform that that there was a body somewhere, of one of their officers, and that he had been resleeved, so that they would be aware. A junior showed up, asked me to strip out of the security gear, which I refused to do based on wanting to go to bed, and the fact that there were organs of the dead officer, in my bag. Told Officer I was going to go to tram, He told me to strip, I semi-panicked, since neither me nor my character wanted to go to jail, batoned the officer non lethally and ran for it, to the trap, and popped into ghost mode to watch for a few seconds, then got prodded by an admin and here we are.
Why you think you should be unbanned:Because I believe that it was a reasonable call to a situation ICly and admittedly I didn't want to have to explain the situation ICly out of some fear of being judged for the RP in general. I had organs in my bag of the officer, was being told to strip, bag included cause it was a sec bag. Was gonna go to jail if I did or didn't drop the bag, so I smacked him an ran. I've honestly seen people do quite a bit more self antagging then that and are back the next shift. I mostly just wanted to sleep and not be judged ICly, since that's already happened once.

[PontifexMinimus]

:So. I'm fairly new here. I came here because I was informed that king shaming and the what not wouldn't happen.

It doesn't. OOC kinkshaming isn't a thing. Reprisals for your IC actions is.

did some hard vore with an officer, yada yada, brutal predation, dead officer. Tossed on officers gear out of some semblence of old days where I didn't like to leave security gear on the floor, planned to cyro with it. Headed to medical, called medical, no med staff. hacked my way in, resleeved officer, cyro'd officer in teleporter next to medbay.

Sure. So you wore the clothes of the victim you just murdered. Doesn't sound like security should touch you at all.

I poked security to inform that that there was a body somewhere, of one of their officers, and that he had been resleeved, so that they would be aware.

Why would you do that. He left the round and all the gear you have magpie'd off him anyway.

A junior showed up, asked me to strip out of the security gear, which I refused to do based on wanting to go to bed, and the fact that there were organs of the dead officer, in my bag. Told Officer I was going to go to tram, He told me to strip,

A bloody dude wearing security gear after he told said security on the security channel that there has been a murder and the junior officer asked them to strip? How reasonable. The officer did well.

I semi-panicked, since neither me nor my character wanted to go to jail, batoned the officer non lethally and ran for it, to the trap, and popped into ghost mode to watch for a few seconds, then got prodded by an admin and here we are.

Yeah, because you made it blatantly obvious that you were the murderer. Then you made a statement of hiding in lockers first to stick around and _then_ flee. Even if the brig has cryo pods anyway and the punishment for vore crimes is skipped anyway as well.

I semi-panicked, since neither me nor my character wanted to go to jail, batoned the officer non lethally and ran for it, to the trap, and popped into ghost mode to watch for a few seconds, then got prodded by an admin and here we are.

Then why do you appeal openly now? Makes it just all the more obvious. And IC actions have IC consequences. Just like that.

I've honestly seen people do quite a bit more self antagging then that and are back the next shift.

Report it to the admins when you see someone going like that and we will deal with it.

I mostly just wanted to sleep and not be judged ICly, since that's already happened once.

Bit odd that you appeal now. Also interesting : https://puu.sh/yxgJG/2124472b17.png

Overall, I cannot say I support this appeal and I wish the full punishment runs its course.

[PontifexMinimus]

To elaborate : The character actively has evidence on his body ICly that he did it. This will not suddenly poof when he gets out of the tram. The fact he also fled from security and away from the station would leave to a suspension anyway A week is relatively mild.


OOCly,I think it's abundantly clear that you like the attention of taunting security and players with your actions. I have seen this before with the holoclothing and how you try to pressure other security with the officers you have befriended. I don't think this is good character behaviour and I encourage you to change that.
Because you're getting attention now. Mine.

[Scree]

Frankly I'm getting sick of seeing this character's name next to yet another argument on the radio that you've turned into the entire station's problem.

One of the first things you did upon arriving here was kick off a massive shitstorm involving butchering a dude, then barging into the kitchen (with the fucking HoS of all people who should know better) and browbeating a guest pass out of the chef, before leaving a bloody mess around full of limbs, and leaving food made of that person's meat out on the counter for the rest of the crew, who - if they had missed any radio messages or simply arrived after you announced it - would effectively be forced to participate in a scene. The prey player in question was given a long hard talk about this behaviour when they tried to make the kinkshame argument, so I'm going to use big letters.

It is not kinkshaming for people to not want to participate in your kink.

It is not permitted to force people to participate in your kink against their wishes.

And yes, if someone had come along on their pure soft vore prey character, eaten one of those burgers without knowing about it, then later found out that they had unwittingly been tricked into effectively participating in a hard vore scene as the fucking predator, this would be considered a massive breach of preferences.

And every interaction I've seen since has been a torrent of lawyering as to why such-and-such a specific case shouldn't apply to you. Both in and out of character, everything's lawyering. Hell, I remember the first IC interaction was when you were reading people's medical details over comms, and when told that was a breach of SOP, you kept on arguing and lawyering, as though it's not possible that you might not actually be correct.

You're also one of an uptick in characters I've seen lately that dredge out the "it's my character" line and proceed to turn every IC interaction into a screaming edgy argument that makes people not stand to be around you. We get them from time to time. You might argue that you're not technically breaking any rules, but just because there's no specific rule about playing a tuba in the goddamn library wouldn't make it any less disruptive to the people who are in the library to read in peace.

[TetraKnife]

Bit odd that you appeal now. Also interesting : https://puu.sh/yxgJG/2124472b17.png

I'd like to not be taken out of context when talking about people.

As a witness to the events, and being personally referenced in a particular link, I feel pretty compelled to post.

First off, I'd like to clarify that Shiak is an idiot, but he's my friend. He does stupid things, and I tell him he probably shouldn't. Like murdering someone and wearing their clothes, that was pretty stupid.

Sure, Shiak has an erratic character. So do I. So do a lot of people, really. (Such as Johnny "Glitch", who basically runs around half the rounds he's in beating Security to the ground.) His character could use improvement, perhaps less frequency in some of his actions, but he seems to fit in pretty well with the amount of people doing such actions that haven't been punished for it.

Also, what happened during that round is Shiak was interrupted by Koshka whilst trying to leave, and didn't wish to get caught (which matches up with his character), so he batonned him and ran off. Pretty sure Shiak was supposed to be gone before Koshka arrived, but he was unable to get into the teleporter.

Personally, I don't think Shiak is worthy of a ban..? Just a really heavy warning, one-day-ban, temporary character-ban at risk of actual ban, or something a bit less serious.
Mostly because I've done similar things to him, as have others, and I've mostly just gotten and "Okay seems legit", and the others weren't apparently doing anything 'bannable', despite it being repeated over multiple rounds and being rather obstructive of roleplay.

ICly?
Shiak murders people whom consent to it, whom he then would resleeve, which would then vouch for him, which would make it a "legal vore". So, he technically cant get charged with murder so long as the person was resleeved, and admits their consent, it tends to fall under such lines.
Shiak has broken the SOP a few times. But I'm pretty sure I have too, and not been punished for it. Honestly, I've seen a lot of people break SOP. I'm not sure why Shiak is being singled out for that one, I've walked around with an entire Sec outfit before that I found in maintenance and nobody said anything to me about it.

OOCly?
I think it's just the frequency of how often he does this that irritates you. I've seen him do a lot of things and nobody's really complained or asked him to move into a private area or do it privately. I basically stalk him in Observe mode when I'm not in-round, I've only once seen someone even suggest he go somewhere private, and it was when they walked in on him AFTER he had finished.
I especially don't think a weeklong ban is in order, especially since you can just warn him to stop acting like that, or to stop playing that character. Especially the latter if you've warned him multiple times.
I honestly see more complaints about my friends who aren't banned than about Shiak. Like the one that was hoarding all of the resources from science over an insult.

Followup.

OOCly,I think it's abundantly clear that you like the attention of taunting security and players with your actions. I have seen this before with the holoclothing and how you try to pressure other security with the officers you have befriended. I don't think this is good character behaviour and I encourage you to change that.
Because you're getting attention now. Mine.

This is not an OOC action, he is doing this in character, and I haven't seen him use Washa nor Garf to pressure other security members. I've seen him tease other security members. If this is a thing, then it's Security's job to fire those security members, not your job to ban Shiak for using science materials (holocloth) and pressuring security ICly.
If you encourage him to change that, then you should not ban him. You should stop him from using this character until it has been improved, or warn him that if this character does not change from this kind of behavior, then he will have to play another one or face an actual punishment, such as a ban.

Frankly I'm getting sick of seeing this character's name next to yet another argument on the radio that you've turned into the entire station's problem.

My character has been in trouble waay more than his. I tried to murder someone. Illegally! In plain sight of everyone. Shiak has more reason to anything he does than my character, which I play with less frequency now mind you, and most the times he does get in trouble with security it's because he roleplays in public spots. Which, again, I've still yet to see him get asked to politely move to a private area.

One of the first things you did upon arriving here was kick off a massive shitstorm involving butchering a dude, then barging into the kitchen (with the fucking HoS of all people who should know better) and browbeating a guest pass out of the chef, before leaving a bloody mess around full of limbs, and leaving food made of that person's meat out on the counter for the rest of the crew, who - if they had missed any radio messages or simply arrived after you announced it - would effectively be forced to participate in a scene. The prey player in question was given a long hard talk about this behaviour when they tried to make the kinkshame argument, so I'm going to use big letters.

First.. Is this even related to his ban..? If it is, then you're not banning him for anything he did that round, he's banned because you don't like what he does. If it isn't then why is this posted here? Second, yes. I too think that when I first arrived here, I caused a bunch of shitstorms too.
Cant say much about the rest of this, since I don't think I was here for this.
But, you can't say that it's forcing someone to 'participate in a scene' if they eat that food, for one: Vore, short for "voraphilia" or "vorarephilia": a fetish in which one fantasizes about being eaten alive or eating another creature alive. After they've been processed and cooked, it's like eating a hamburger. Also, I vaguely imagine that others would warn people about the burgers before they ate them, and I don't think anyone is going to make a scene about eating food, unless they're me.

It is not permitted to force people to participate in your kink against their wishes.

And yes, if someone had come along on their pure soft vore prey character, eaten one of those burgers without knowing about it, then later found out that they had unwittingly been tricked into effectively participating in a hard vore scene as the fucking predator, this would be considered a massive breach of preferences.

With this, you're going to have to say 'Omitting rape fetishists, force fetishists, and unwilling fetishists'. As, they legitimately want to participate in something against their wishes.
And no, it is not a 'breach of preference' to eat a burger made of someone unless they're alive, it is however forcing someone to commit a crime, and a pretty heavy jail sentence in real life, and would technically fall under negligence for this game's purposes.

And every interaction I've seen since has been a torrent of lawyering as to why such-and-such a specific case shouldn't apply to you. Both in and out of character, everything's lawyering. Hell, I remember the first IC interaction was when you were reading people's medical details over comms, and when told that was a breach of SOP, you kept on arguing and lawyering, as though it's not possible that you might not actually be correct.

Well. . I guess you've never seen those precious many times he spends talking to his friends then? You must only focus on the few times he's murdering someone and getting in trouble for it, which would be kinkshaming, I think. Or perhaps you're just trying to find a reason to ban him.
I'm around him a lot, and I've seen him around people a lot. Most of his roleplaying is a mix of being a bit of a weirdo to being a bit too overzealous of a lawbreaker. And he still hasn't been arrested for it. Just complaints filed, I guess? I've never seen anyone complain too much about him though. I only see complaints the few times he murders people, and that's consensual, and doesn't happen too often.
Oh, also. "Lawyering" is a good thing. It means he knows his rights. You cant be pissy with someone for trying to wiggle their way out of something.

You're also one of an uptick in characters I've seen lately that dredge out the "it's my character" line and proceed to turn every IC interaction into a screaming edgy argument that makes people not stand to be around you. We get them from time to time. You might argue that you're not technically breaking any rules, but just because there's no specific rule about playing a tuba in the goddamn library wouldn't make it any less disruptive to the people who are in the library to read in peace.

You do realize that Shiak has like.. a good four to six people around him daily, yes? If he was genuinely that disruptive, and nobody wanted to be around him, then that would not be the case. "It's my character", mind you, is the only excuse in roleplay. You cannot logically give an excuse for your character doing something without saying "It's my character" and "[insert reason character would do this]".
You'll find that the rule
"A person shall not make noise, cause a disturbance, make or take cell phone calls, hold public meetings or demonstrations, within the library, or behave in such a manner that would interfere with or impact negatively on study and research activities of library users."
Should cover that part about the tuba.

[Scree]

what the fuck did I just say about lawyers

stop being an asshole

you can't lawyer your way out of being an asshole

YOUR first interaction I saw on station was you marching up to the fucking HOS because you were told not to break into medbay, announcing that you were going to break into the brig, then breaking into the brig and crowing about it on comms. Then gave this exact same lawyery bullshit about how it would have been "brutality" if the HoS (the sole member of sec that shift) had tased you.

No matter how many weasel-words you try to bring out of it, you're still an asshole. And when you turn being an asshole into a matter of principle, you're going to be shown the door.
Stop playing the fucking tuba in the library.

edit:

Oh, also. "Lawyering" is a good thing. It means he knows his rights. You cant be pissy with someone for trying to wiggle their way out of something.

You have no fucking rights. This is a private community, if we don't want you here, then we will eject you. Don't be someone we don't want here if you want to stay. Maybe try not being the kind of person that other players don't want to be around.

edit edit:

And no, it is not a 'breach of preference' to eat a burger made of someone unless they're alive,

Fuck off. Fuck. Right. Off. This is outright prefbreaking. I am telling you it is prefbreaking. If you want to whine about it and scream "MUH RIGHTS" like it's a federal fucking issue, or try and twist the letter of the rules into somehow making someone eat the flesh of another crewmember somehow not being involving them in your hardvore scene, or what the hell ever, then go ahead and whine. It doesn't make it so. Your opinion has been considered, and discarded.

[Shiak Zuhl]

Alright, Lemme state this in accordance to everything.

I've yet to once, to my knowledge or rememberance, be pinged to anything on this list, either to the holo-gear, or the cooking someone into food, at any point in time.

In fact, I'm 99% sure I wasn't pinged about scree's mention, nor did I come up with the idea. I was just having a normal round, someone wanted it to happen, vore happens regularly, I had a contract written up by another doctor about a voluntary killing to which the HoS saw, read, and signed off on before doing it. My only job ICly was to fulfill the wishes, make him into a burger, and walk off, which is what I did. Never got pinged.

If you wish for me to change things about my character, then I am happy to do that, and I apologise for not realizing what I did was wrong, but at the same time, no one has ever told me, in any admin type ping, that what I was doing was wrong in such regards. What I do know that I've been pinged for are as followed.
-Broke into CMO's to get a cat the first day I was on the server because someone asked me to, and I didn't know I could drink its blood, so I killed it in trying. Fixed the breach, hasn't happened again.
-Attempted to hack into medbay because none of med staff refused to answer any calls about there being an oddy available in the lobby and I wasn't going to leave it unattended, and my character was a bit lazy.
-I got pissy for a bunch of IC comments and hate from people I've never met, assuming, and still do, assume, it to be metahate. Admin resolved peacefully and respectfully.
-Was messaged about having metahate on my third day, toward one Alyssa Wheeler, after they LOOC'y insulted me, I waited for them to be out of view, then just said 'Cunt' in LOOC to no one in particular. Admin resolved -to my knowledge-

This is a game entirely about characters. I understand preferences, and I will never purposefully or willingly, try to break other peoples preferences, even if mine, are completely and extensively, fucked up. But I do not find it fair, to pressure me about my character, when I haven't even been informed of half of it beforehand.

I dick around a little bit, and sometimes intentionally pester security for a laugh. Want me to stop? Great! Tell me, ping me, LOOC me. I'll do it. Don't ban me off the bat when there's people who do it much worse hourly, much less daily. I've never even been in combat aside from this time, and I went about it nonlethally.

I lawyer up, yes. Cause I've read Sop, and the law book, I'll use it if I feel I'm being prodded unjustly ICly, or if I feel like its a light enough crime and should be let off. No one wants to spend time in a cell, and I've been unjustly accused by IAA twice. Which was proven when IAA went to jail in cuffs.

Last of all, I don't force anyone to do anything to get me off the hook. Not security, not science, nobody. If they do it, they do it off their own free will, mostly to my own annoyance as well.

[TetraKnife]

stop being an asshole

But I am an asshole.

YOUR first interaction I saw on station was you marching up to the fucking HOS because you were told not to break into medbay, announcing that you were going to break into the brig, then breaking into the brig and crowing about it on comms. Then gave this exact same lawyery bullshit about how it would have been "brutality" if the HoS (the sole member of sec that shift) had tased you.

Correction. My first interaction on station was being attacked by a giant spider and saving someone from it. . . Around two weeks before the incident you're even talking about. The one you're talking about was a lot more recently, so more recently in fact that it was like a good two weeks into me playing. Perhaps you only judge people by their bad interactions with people.
I didn't give a 'lawyery' speech about how it would be brutality had they tased me. It would legitimately have been brutality to tase a completely willing to listen suspect.
Oh right. The coms thing. I was trying to protect a friend who was also in trouble at the time. It had nothing to do with me personally wanting to get in trouble, I was trying to defend my friend from getting arrested for being a shitlord, and ended up arrested, whilst he got away with it.

No matter how many weasel-words you try to bring out of it, you're still an asshole. And when you turn being an asshole into a matter of principle, you're going to be shown the door.
Stop playing the fucking tuba in the library.

"You are an asshole, thus your argument is invalid."

I think I'll go now before you decide to judge Shiak based upon his friends.

[Scree]

Again with the weaselling and the technicalities.
Not that any of this is relevant to Shiak's appeal in the first place. "I've got away with worse!" doesn't get him off the hook. It's not okay for me to stab a dude in front of the police because some other guy one county over managed to conceal a murder.

[Aces]

"You are an asshole, thus your argument is invalid."

I think I'll go now before you decide to judge Shiak based upon his friends.

That's fine. Shiak's done a great job of doing that themselves.

Appeal rejected.

Because lack of knowledge =/= consent.
Just because they can't tell you no doesn't imply consent.

I don't give a shit what your fetishes are. Your protection from kink shaming stops the instance it infringes on someone else.