Macro/micro balancing

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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Nightwing » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:30 pm

Dhaeleena wrote:i think they should have the same amount of cons and pros

Indeed they should! But right now, micros have more pros than macros, namely how hard it is to click them combined with how fast they move making them almost impossible to hit in combat without stepping on them, and macros have plenty of pros in that they can step on people to stun them, or scoop them up entirely.

orbisa wrote:Maybe not letting micros take/use bulky things? or be able to walk under tables?

The first one isn't a good thing really, we want to prevent micros from being overpowered in combat mostly, not prevent them from doing jobs around the station. Walking under tables might be doable though, especially if we say that they can only walk under WOODEN tables.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby orbisa » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:32 pm

only under wooden? hrm, interesting!
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Nightwing » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:35 pm

It's just an idea I've thrown up here to see what people think. Should it be ALL tables or just wooden? The in-game sprites for metal tables imply that they don't really have legs, I think, sooo...
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby orbisa » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:50 pm

metal ones yes, the reinforced ones are the restricted ones
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby warbrand2 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:10 pm

Think micro's should be able to go under wooden table and metal tables, as well as be able to climb onto the tables, (not reinforced ones) as a draw back though they can not collect items on tables unless they climb onto them. (Cause think about it a 5 inch tall person should not be able to grab something on a 3 foot tall table)


On combat, think unless a micro is hulked they really shouldn't be able to damage anything, like giving the smallest miro's a 99% damage cut making them useless in combat.


Another thing I would suggest how about making it so that there is "exo suits" for micros these are suits that would remove the downs and positives of being a micro to allow the character to do their job. basically a small mech.

with something like that you can give larger job downs to a micro and give robotics something to do by making these exo suits.

though that might be a bad idea.



Anyway in my mind I think micros should be small and weak, but have the advantage of not needing much to eat and having the ability to hide easily.

proposed idea

Micro tiny
-99% damage dealt
-: +50% damage taken (takes more damage)
-can't pick things up off tables
+ can climb under/ onto tables
+ slower metabolism +gets more nutrients out of food.
- slower movement over all
+harder to hit in combat (higher miss rate?)?

micro small
-50% damage dealt
-: +25% damage taken
+ can hide under tables
+ slower metabolism


macro large
+50% damage dealt
+ -50% damage taken
can step over tables
- higher metabolism
+ faster moving
+ can carry medium objects


macro huge
+ 99% damage dealt (
+ -50% damage taken
can step over tables and small furnature (doing so when hostile intent breaks)
- really freaking high metabolism
+ faster moving
+ if it isn't bolted down they can carry it, that said tehy can not carry mechs or super large items.
I think to much.

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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Aces » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:17 pm

I'd be okay with micros being able to move over/under non-reinforced tables.

Reinforced tables extend to the floor. Really, mice shouldn't be able to scurry under them either, but mice are more nimble (I'm too lazy to code it).
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Alicia Jewel » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:47 am

No idea how feasible this would be from a gameplay/coding standpoint, but what if smaller folk had faster yet weaker melee attacks while the bigger folk had slower yet stronger ones?
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Aces » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:27 pm

Alicia Jewel wrote:No idea how feasible this would be from a gameplay/coding standpoint, but what if smaller folk had faster yet weaker melee attacks while the bigger folk had slower yet stronger ones?


This is something I wanted to do, but in exchange, wanted to give micros a higher dodge chance, and big folks a lower one.

I also had desires to disable guns for micros and macros excluding specialty weapons but this was all pushed aside until we get other balances in place. Right now it's pretty much honor system which unfortunately doesn't stop someone from powergaming as a micro able to beat people up when the admins aren't looking.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Nightwing » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:21 pm

warbrand2 wrote:Micro tiny
-99% damage dealt
-: +50% damage taken (takes more damage)
-can't pick things up off tables
+ can climb under/ onto tables
+ slower metabolism +gets more nutrients out of food.
- slower movement over all
+harder to hit in combat (higher miss rate?)?


Okay, Imma go through this bit by bit.

-99% is ludicrous. You'd never ever manage to bring down anything. You'd be dealing decimal point damage. It'd take you half an hour to bring down a human who wasn't even fighting back.

The rest all seems fairly reasonable, although +50% is also a pretty big change for damage to take.

warbrand2 wrote:micro small
-50% damage dealt
-: +25% damage taken
+ can hide under tables
+ slower metabolism


That -50% damage is still kinda high. I'd be looking at this for micros, with small people taking maybe a -25% or less. If you think about it, a small-ish person can still hold normal sized weapons, but they just can't swing them as powerfully. But that power doesn't equate to a whole 50% drop in damage. Can still put enough force behind a stab to pierce flesh.

I'm not sure I'd allow small people to hide under tables that way. Or perhaps micros can just walk under, whereas it takes small people a few seconds to get down on all fours and crawl?

The rest all seems okay, but again with the balancing for the damage given/received.

warbrand2 wrote:macro large
+50% damage dealt
+ -50% damage taken
can step over tables
- higher metabolism
+ faster moving
+ can carry medium objects


Aside from previously addressed damage balancing, there's two things here that really don't settle well with me.

Stepping over tables is a VERY powerful thing for someone to be able to do. You'd get a lot more access that way. You could just step into the bar, and into medbay, security, etc. I don't think that's a reasonable power for a big guy.

I want to know what you mean by "medium objects". Do you mean things like canisters and arcade machines and chairs? If so, that's kinda... Not really a good thing. It'd be hard to program, but the ability to just pick up a canister in each hand and carry it along that way with a third dragging behind you makes you 3 times more efficient than a normal sized person, which isn't all that balanced.

warbrand2 wrote:macro huge
+ 99% damage dealt (
+ -50% damage taken
can step over tables and small furnature (doing so when hostile intent breaks)
- really freaking high metabolism
+ faster moving
+ if it isn't bolted down they can carry it, that said tehy can not carry mechs or super large items.


+99% damage is too powerful

Being able to break any furniture by walking on it is too powerful and has massive griefing potential.

Picking up anything that isn't bolted down: See above.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby warbrand2 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:39 pm

yeah didn't really know damage stats... so just threw numbers at a wall


on the macro parts.... was trying to think of an "advantage" for them like micros and smalls going under tables. And I understand that stepping on tables would be OP as hell realized it while on another server where you could climb on them... result was the bar was either locked down or looted 90% of the time.


On the picking things up: think the largest thing a macro could pick up is an arcade machine or yes a canister but think doing so should lock the other hand and block dragging. which would balance it a bit. that is unless the creature is one with a tail like a naga or what ever hte lizard race is called then they can still drag something but their hands are blocked.

Also keep in mind do to the mechanics you can technically drag upto 3 things at once so that needs to be fixed anyway.


EDIT:

on the small people going under tables... think it would take a few seconds to do so with a "crawl" under option... though if said thing was an option then think normal sized characters should have it to (as a 6 foot tall person can crawl under a table).

also have to ask what the "size is of the macro and large characters mechanics wise.... trying to think of something for them in the vein of the micros ability to move under/climb on tables.

well except for the reinforced ones. which shouldn't have the move under or climb option (cause micro climbing into bar is bad, micro climbing into medical worse)

could make it so macros have some sort of expanded carrying like a special pack type they can get from science or something. (a macro backpack holds 4x as much as a normal pack but can not be used by anyone smaller then large?)
I think to much.

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