Macro/micro balancing

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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Nightwing » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:18 pm

Actually, I guess since we're adding the ability for people to climb over tables ANYWAY with the upcoming update, that shouldn't be much of a problem. But breaking things would be bad. However, a normal-sized person should NOT be able to crawl under a table because mechanically, crawling under a table is basically a chance to hide.

Locking the hand and blocking dragging... Means that it's almost identical to dragging the canister anyway... But with more difficult coding to take care of. Maybe I'll make dragging speed scale too.

An extended backpack is better than you might think. Suddenly you can keep more stuff than ever before hidden away on your person, be it weapons, pills, tools, or contraband. I'd have to think about it.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby warbrand2 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:30 pm

Nightwing wrote:Actually, I guess since we're adding the ability for people to climb over tables ANYWAY with the upcoming update, that shouldn't be much of a problem. But breaking things would be bad. However, a normal-sized person should NOT be able to crawl under a table because mechanically, crawling under a table is basically a chance to hide.

Locking the hand and blocking dragging... Means that it's almost identical to dragging the canister anyway... But with more difficult coding to take care of. Maybe I'll make dragging speed scale too.

An extended backpack is better than you might think. Suddenly you can keep more stuff than ever before hidden away on your person, be it weapons, pills, tools, or contraband. I'd have to think about it.


hmmm.... trying to think of a mechanic that fits macros but doesn't make them OP is hard....


could give them a stomp ability sort of like the honk mechs stun ability but that would be OP and usless most of the time. (even if it it delayed movement on the macro to)


Saddly large things generally are more powerful, and any idea I can come up with for them would be power related.

example I could say make special gear for micros and macros.... for micros give mech and exo suit modes so they can use them and look normal sized (removes all the movement problems) for macro's make it to where... got it.

make it so macro's can't use mechs instead have to use specially built exo suits these suits would be more mobile then a mech but provide less protection. for example a macro ripply exo would have faster movement then a standard ripply but the storage on it would be less... nah still would be a problem as not many maco's even try to use mechs.

Though I think macros and micros should have to have special modifications ot use mechs... (always wondered how a micro could use a ripply just as well as a normal sized person or how a macro could even fit in one)


hmm need to think of something not power related and that doesn't make a job easier for them or harder.... hmmm sorry for the spam just righting down thoughts as they head through the brain.


how about this macro's are unable to use fine motor skill tools like scaples and guns as they are to large to use them, but the can request special versions which they can use. (probibly would be to much work to be worth it.... and the spriting work just to make the items....)


EDIT: ok thinking to much

on the dragging scale idea that should work make it so macro's can pull items with out much or any slowdown while normal sized have a modrate slow down and micro's can barrely pull anything unless it is on wheels or something...

with that would suggest adding wheels and hover platforms that can be put on crates and containers to make them easier to pull. this way both normal sized and micro characters can drag things with little slow down.

example

micro/small
-25% pull speed

normal
-10% pull speed

large/ macro
no loss of speed

with wheels

micro/small
-15% pull speed

normal
-5% pull speed

large macro
no loss of speed

with hover plates

all
no loss of speed
+ macros can push it and send it flying 4 spaces.
I think to much.

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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby orbisa » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:58 pm

I like the dragging idea, but, could I suggest a little twist?

We have for each object a weight class already, IIRC they go from 1-5, 3 being normal items, 5 being things you can't place on your backpack, 1 you can actually place on your ear.

We could use those values for reduction, and size modifieers would add or take from it when we have to drag things, and we should apply that to grab to, so, a normal sized person dragging a macro would have a hard time, and a micro trying to do so would have a really hard time.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Netjak » Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:39 am

I agree with and like the greatest part of the suggestions given here, but one that I am strongly against is the proposed movement speed buff to macros. Alright, insects, mice and other small things are generally slow, I agree to that, but once you reach the mass of humans, deer, geopards and sailfish, all within the weightrange of 30 - 90 kg, that's where you find all the fastest animals on Earth (except for the birds of course, who are even lighter). Big creatures are slow and lumbering, having a ton of inertia while still having mostly the same density of flesh, blood and bone as humanoid sized creatures, making them voulnerable to litterally having their bodies break under their own weight if they accelerate too quickly.

And of course, being able to stomp-stun with increased movement speed sounds like a very op mechanic. Though, that being said, it could be interesting to have macros start of running slower than normal, before gaining speed in a sort of a charge which could allow them to break through glass and vines for example just by running into them. Changing direction would of course need to reset the charge timer, which I would guess would make it impossible to code.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Dhaeleena » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:32 am

Aces wrote:
This is something I wanted to do, but in exchange, wanted to give micros a higher dodge chance, and big folks a lower one.



I think this is alredy great to balance things, making the huge thing easy to hit seems fair and making the tiny almost not visible thing not easy to hit plus the rest of the aditions seems fair, also micros being able to walk or hide under woodem and normal metal tables seems cool but not the reinforced ones
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby warbrand2 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:28 pm

hmmm got a strange idea but how about micros having higher health regin and macro's having slower.... this would mean an injury on a micro wouldn't be as life threatening for long while a macro will need medical for anything more then a small cut (exagerations)

something like

micro
+15% health regin

small
+5%

large
-5%

macro
-10%

yeah this is probibly a crap idea. and micros probibly have to many +'s coming form the suggestions here.
I think to much.

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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Nightwing » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:07 am

Hmm. Health regen speeds might actually be a neat idea.

@Netjak: Momentum? Hmm... I might look into that. Seems kinda... Might be tricky to implement, but it sounds cool.

Mousetraps are another thing I'd like to discuss. Ace wants to enforce that any time a micro enters a tile that contains a mousetrap, they take the same damage as if a human had stepped on it with no shoes on. I think this is kind of silly; why would you go press the trigger? I wanna hear peoples' opinions on this.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Aces » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:09 am

[9:07:20 AM] Spades: How about this.
[9:07:24 AM] Spades: If run intent is on or off.
[9:07:31 AM] Spades: If walk intent is on, it's avoided.
[9:07:40 AM] Spades: But if you're running, you have a chance to get snapped on it.


For mousetraps. Since Nightwing thinks it's dumb that an intelligent creature would get hit by mouse traps just because they are small when you could avoid them easily.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby Nightwing » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:11 am

I do indeed like the idea that Ace has proposed, being very similar to what I was thinking of.

---

On a completely different note, apparently a recent TG upgrade to combat has added the ability to click behind people and still hit them in melee. What if we butchered that code a bit so that you can hit someone by clicking on their tile (not the ones behind them)? Would make micro melee a lot easier.
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Re: Macro/micro balancing

Postby orbisa » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:43 am

I pointed out the bit of code, so I am not being objective when I say I am up for it :P
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