Whitelist Diona?

[Aces]

Let's not derail the thread by arguing about Prometheans next. That said I would like to severely nerf Prometheans or outright remove them. I can't whitelist them because players play as goo people, and making normal goo people just isn't necessary.

Save that for another thread though.

[ulviiriara]

I'd say I'm against white list, as there are some folks who use diona for other type of species. Some use them as Treant types, I've noticed.
That and they have a sufficient level of cons, that most players aren't even interested in using them most of the time. Namely, the whole...well.
THEY ARE FUKKIN SLOW. It drives most people not to play them. I've seen..3 diona? Only one was around longer than a single round.

Now, on to what I think -should- get white listed, is Prometheans. Why? Well, allow me to explain.

PROS to Prometheans:
-You regen from everything in 60 seconds. Everything short of critical/death.
-You're fast as everyone else.
-No bones, no organs, no surgery ever needed on you. Period.
-Emulate any species you want, just see through and goopy.
-No air required! You have no organs, put on any flimsy space suit, and you can be EVA indefinitely.
-Far as testing proved, you're also immune to cold!
-Tanky as fuck as long as you're not immediately hosed down in bullets or lasers. Tank through regeneration!
-Unlike diona, you aren't starved with no light! Go ahead, eat what you want.

Cons:
-You cannot be cloned.
-You cannot be healed. However, you regen rapidly anyway, almost not even a con.

All in all. I would be far more happy if Prometheans hit the white list barrier rather than Diona. This is speaking as someone who has played both.

Well, They are cold effected trust me. Like the slimes in xeno bio. Also how is emulating a species a pro? You get none of there effects because your race is the same. Also they are not as tank, regen slower by far and are near humans. And its far from sixty seconds. More like two minutes. I had to use advanced medkits to fix myself during a away mission while a Diona charged through and kill 90% of the gun armed mobs.

[Vorrarkul]

The subject of their utility for representing other races would be a factor in my vote. I am withholding my own judgement until I see more arguments for each side, but right now I am leaning towards whitelisting them for reasons already stated.
That said, I can't really think of any "Not-a-diona" species that couldn't be served by giving us a tree-branch hat of some kind for our "Not-a-humans", and it would even get rid of the main reason NOT to play them; the speed.

[Aces]

Further posts regarding Prometheans will be redacted for being off-topic. Again, put it in another thread. We're talking about Diona right now. Whether we should have Prometheans whitelisted or not plays no role in this decision about Diona.

[Scree]

I know a couple of people who play dryad characters that literally pick another species (I know of a human and a unathi off the top of my head) and set themselves to have a brown woody skin tone and green hair. Playing plant-people is not a thing someone has to be a diona for.

Reasons for being a specific species on a server like ours with the level of customisation we have are basically as follows:
1: you like the sprite (hence using tajara for generic furries, unathi for generic scalies, nevreans for generic birds, and so on and so forth)
2: you want the mechanical effects (being able to shapeshift as a slime, etc)
3: you actually want to roleplay actually being that specific species.

The latter is the one that really really suffers from people doing the former two. The diona sprite really isn't good for representing anything other than a diona, and someone wanting to play them for the mechanics is pretty powergamey, while people who actually want to be the peaceful-tree-species really really suffer badly if every other diona the crew meets is a greytiding shitter that solo-tanks all the away missions, eats kittens in the bar in front of people while they're so fucking tanky that nobody can stop them, and splits into nymphs for the sole purpose of ventcrawling into places and stealing shit then complaining when people get sick of their nonsense.
If someone shows up in good faith wanting to play an actual diona and the crew's reaction is "oh god it's one of those fucking trees again" then... that kinda ruins it for everyone.

[Vorrarkul]

Seriously, dissenters, the vote's still rather close but I've seen a single post in defense of them remaining available to everyone. I have the feeling the opinions are going to weigh significantly more than the actual votes, so please, explain why Diona should not be whitelisted. I want to know.

[Lobo-Branco]

Too much bureaucracy takes away the fun in my opinion.

What would it take to get someone whitelisted? Just applying is enough to get whitelisted? What's the point then?

If you're worried about trolls... why not use a blacklist instead?

[Aces]

What would it take to get someone whitelisted? Just applying is enough to get whitelisted? What's the point then?

You've seen the whitelist forum, right? Look at the ones I've denied, and why. Then look at the ones I accepted.

Diona are a mechanically abusive race that are not used as a placeholder to other races, and so far, most players have demonstrated (in my opinion) they are not capable of playing the role without abusing it, even if not explicitly malicious, but they still cause problems.

What a whitelist does is enforce a standard as to how Diona are expected to be played. Their tanky abilities would be moot if people actually played them as peaceful intellectuals as they are SUPPOSED TO BE.

Seriously, dissenters, the vote's still rather close but I've seen a single post in defense of them remaining available to everyone. I have the feeling the opinions are going to weigh significantly more than the actual votes, so please, explain why Diona should not be whitelisted. I want to know.

I want to remind everyone that this isn't a democracy. I put up polls for general opinions but if I see a really good argument in the thread, I'm willing to going to go against popular opinion in favor of a really good argument. So far though I haven't seen one against a whitelist, and the polls are winning anyway.

[Wickedtemp]

Too much bureaucracy takes away the fun in my opinion.

What would it take to get someone whitelisted? Just applying is enough to get whitelisted? What's the point then?

If you're worried about trolls... why not use a blacklist instead?

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=628

This is literally all it takes, or in this instance, all it took, to get approved to play as a diona. Now, I'm biased in my favor of whitelists for easily-abused species, because my first server was Bay12, where EVERY non-human species had a whitelist. A relatively strict one, where you had to prove you know the set lore for that species, you had to prove you knew how to roleplay in the set manner in which that species would act in. The amount of effort it took to be whitelisted alone acted as a shit-filter, you had to actually care to get whitelisted, and as a result, all of the non-human characters were pretty good at roleplaying as that species, and I personally very much enjoyed the standard of quality.

Now, for Virgo... It's not going to take much to get on that whitelist for the diona. Literally just make an effort to play them in the manner they're meant to be played, and I'm pretty sure that'd make the cut.

As for the 'Why not use a blacklist instead?', that's actually a good question, and Ace, feel free to comment on this if I'm wrong, but the reason I would lay out to be in favor of a whitelist instead of a blacklist are:

It's easier to control who to let IN, instead of keeping watch on who to kick OUT. Imagine you're a bouncer at a club. The manager is a bit of a dick and goes "If you see anybody with blue eyes, kick them out."... But instead of policing who goes IN, you're only allowed to roam through the club and kick people OUT if you see any blue-eyed people in. You're going to miss several. And some of them are going to catch on and they'll be careful to avoid you when they see you.

It's easier to just stop people before they enter, check their eye color quickly, and then let them through, instead of sifting through the crowds and hoping you find them all when they're mixed in with everybody else.

[Scree]

As for the 'Why not use a blacklist instead?', that's actually a good question, and Ace, feel free to comment on this if I'm wrong, but the reason I would lay out to be in favor of a whitelist instead of a blacklist are:

It's easier to control who to let IN, instead of keeping watch on who to kick OUT. Imagine you're a bouncer at a club. The manager is a bit of a dick and goes "If you see anybody with blue eyes, kick them out."... But instead of policing who goes IN, you're only allowed to roam through the club and kick people OUT if you see any blue-eyed people in. You're going to miss several. And some of them are going to catch on and they'll be careful to avoid you when they see you.

It's easier to just stop people before they enter, check their eye color quickly, and then let them through, instead of sifting through the crowds and hoping you find them all when they're mixed in with everybody else.

This is basically exactly the reason.

Like the Shadow Court PCs in ling, it's a lot easier to say "only people who we know are gonna follow the lore are allowed to play these" than it is to say "you're not allowed to play your shadow court character any more" when someone walks into the middle of the duke's reception and yells "PAY HEED TO MY DEMANDS, OR FACE THE WRATH OF THE SHADOW COURT" while waving a sword around.