Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

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Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby VerySoft » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:07 pm

There is a new feature to prevent ghosts from being able to see subtles and whispers, and that's cool.

Problem is, it's defaulted to hidden, and most people don't know about it. Most people know how things have been, and sort of expect that ghosts would be able to see their posts.

I personally think that this feature should be set to visible by default, since that's how things have always worked. Let people turn it on if they want to use it.

While this isn't necessarily a -problem-, with how people don't really know about it, and hiding things is the default option, it's gonna interfere with post vore scenes and teases and such.
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Re: Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby Heroman3003 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:15 pm

I agree. I did bring it up when the preference was just being implemented, that ideally the 'original' behaviour should be the default, not the 'new' one, but that seems to have been ignored. Although at this point its going to be problematic to change it as everyone who joined the server since it got implemented will already have it not just defaulted to, but saved as the way it is. Only new people and people who haven't played since update that brought it in will be affected if it is finally fixed so late.
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Re: Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby Scree » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:18 pm

It was off by default when I was testing it and I missed the part where that got changed. I'd hate to see people have their sneaky scenes messed up 'cause their pred didn't know about the subtle toggle.
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Re: Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby TheFurryFeline » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:21 pm

Approve of this for reasons posted. Was against the whole thing being added in the first place as was Heroman per the discussion that was raised here.
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Re: Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby JoanRisu » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:07 pm

Personally, I prefer it to be an opt-out function as I see the same issue of communicating the existence of the option in the reverse situation but with the additional considerations that went into why the feature was added to begin with; heading off issues with bot logging and the unfortunate reality that people don't know nor communicate (unintentionally or otherwise) the fine line between teasing, the unintended causing of discomfort, and plain harassment.

I agree that post-vore scening and teasing is 1) fun and 2) a function of the server's intended purpose to facilitate the theme by which we have based the server on. To that end, the consideration weighs in favor of the default as visible. What I caution people to consider are those who tend to not have a voice for themselves until it is too late and the administration finds out about issues relating to logging from a third-party, a friend, or by a (un)happy accident.

I would much rather someone ask us explicitly, "Hey, how do I turn this off? I'm pretty comfortable with people seeing my scenes," instead of hearing weeks too late that a really nice person that everyone liked leaving because they didn't know how to turn this on or didn't know of its existence, and didn't have the courage to ask us about it or tell us that a problem happened because they didn't know about this. I find that situation, which has happened before, to be contrary to our mission to facilitate a fun and reasonably confortable role-playing environment. For me, the opt-out side of this issue is a proactive contribution to fighting this kind of situation that is already difficult to be proactive in administratively, and while I realize that this is playing off what-ifs, it's hard to ignore the what-ifs when it historically happened in the community.

That all said, here are some things we can consider for solutions to either side of the issue:
  • The traditional solution is that we make an announcement in both server and discord. However, as with many communication issues with respect to online announcements, these announcements can be buried or replaced because a new need arises and this particular issue becomes stale. We can mitigate this issue by editing the new player guide to inform users that the option exists.
  • Another solution that can help is a flag that causes a message to show up only once or twice informing the user of the option. If we decide that opt-in is the direction we want to go towards, I strongly ask that we explore this option.
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Re: Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby Heroman3003 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:17 pm

Logging issue is not going to be fixed by it at all, IMO. I understand wanting this as extra privacy thing, but if the issue is people somehow using scene material is blackmail (which aparently was main reason for it to be added?), I do not see this feature as a fix to that in any way. This only affects one specific type of scene in the first place: semi-public scenes, kept from public eye via subtles/whispers, but happening around people anyway. Most private scenes are still viewable and loggable and that didnt change. People overall playing on this server is also easily checkable and that is also unlikely to change. I find "countering blackmail" aspect of this feature to be... very pointless, personally. And if it IS viewed as just "a little extra privacy" thing, it definitely should be something you opt-in to, since otherwise I still see there being overall more harm to scene quality. The default on the "privacy" is a textbook example of attempting to fix whats basically a people issue through game means and harming most in the process. People are scared to approach you with issues they have and that is what should be worked on, because in the long run, if that feature was there and blackmail came out of private scene that was using mes and says, it would be absolutely no different. This just doesn't solve that problem in the slightest.
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Re: Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby Ketrai » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:30 pm

Scratch what I said, I've been informed what actually happened, and yeah, I don't really see an issue with this existing and it being on by default.
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Re: Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby VerySoft » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:49 pm

A suggestion I made in private I think would actually help protect people and allow the game to behave as it always has:

What if there was a third setting that was the default, where ghosts cannot see your whispers or subtles at range but can see them when they are next to or on top of you, similar to how you can't see them when you are standing too far away in character. That way it is impossible for normal players to log everything on the server, but is less likely to result in accidental missed messages for people who are involved in post vore things.

And, I would definitely agree that there being some kind of pop up that asks you what you prefer would be good too.
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A

Postby H0lySquirr3l » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:25 pm

A
Last edited by H0lySquirr3l on Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whi/Subtles Ghost Visible should default to visible

Postby Wickedtemp » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:27 pm

I don't see an issue with it being on by default.

If someone likes doing teasy-stuff with ghosted people in mind, they'll likely be made aware and all its gonna take is a polite LOOC and a repost.

If someone doesn't want their scene stuff broadcasted, then its protected from the start and we don't have anyone made uncomfortable before they actually knew there was a toggle.

There really isn't any need for a middle ground or third option, as far as I can tell. If we're all honest with ourselves, it takes zero effort to just turn the toggle off if you want ghosts to see your posts. So if you do that then you're all set. Ezpz.
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