Aces wrote:That said, perhaps my own temper still needs to be more in check regardless. My frustration was given as a reason. My viewing your lack of qualification was not meant as a means of saying "I'm not going to listen to you" but more to implore you to do exactly what you have done, which is keep drilling the point you feel strongly about because you know there is a long term end goal that benefits the community's health. I admire that, even if I don't agree with everything you say.
Thank you, I appreciate it. I didn't expect you to agree with everything I've said, but I'm glad that there is at least an acknowledgment that improvements can be made.
Aces wrote:It looks to me like you claimed exactly what I said you claimed.
Can you possibly tell me what I misunderstood here if that is not the case? Because I read it as you saying that admins are just blaming everyone else instead of admitting their own faults. Perhaps never isn't correct for me to say, but you get my point.
It's a difference in quantity, rather than quality (some, rather than all), though to me that's a pretty big difference, really. If I thought that this applied to all admins, then I wouldn't have bothered joining in on this discussion in the first place; there's no saving that kind of sinking ship. I think that the attitude I mentioned there is displayed only by a minority of the admins, but I don't think it should be tolerated in any admin.
Perhaps it was a bit hyperbolic, though, and it may not be fair to say that that's what that minority does
all of the time, but from what I've seen in this thread so far, it certainly seems to me like that's their default position, which is a shame to see.
Aces wrote:So I have read the rest of this and it basically amounts to being upset at me and Scree somewhat for responding negatively to the community. In context, you are probably referring to Discord conversations in particular and how those seem to always devolve into shit shows wherein one of the staff comes in and just shuts it down when people are being polite to each other.
I don't particularly have much else to say other than two points.
One is that they really aren't being polite to each other and that's usually why I get called.
Two is an admission that, okay, maybe you have a point in that I can try being a little more chill about it.
That said, I am also curious how the interaction to follow is about to go. You said that it is okay for me to criticize people and their bad behavior so let's see what happens when I do that to one of our usual offenders. Do you think my response to them was unfair in any way?
More or less, though my core issue is that I think that the way some of the admins have been responding to shit shows they felt needed to be shut down really just ends up stirring up the shit show even more, or starting a shit show where there wasn't one before. It's not about hurt feelings, it's about the fact that this kind of response doesn't fix the issue it's supposed to fix and comes with the collateral damage of discouraging civil and polite conversation in times future. I certainly don't think that the admin response in the Discord discussion that spawned this improved the situation at all and I think it would be unreasonable to say otherwise.
If you believed that the discussion was uncivil before you came into it then, well, I think that's not an unreasonable opinion, but I thought that there wasn't any disrespectful behaviour going on yet, merely a rather tense discussion. We can agree to differ on that point and I think it would be rather silly to argue about it at length, since that's not the crux of the argument here, really.
I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that WickedTemp could have expressed themselves better there, but, if I'm honest, that is what I have felt the admins were implying at the time and at points in this thread, even if I may not have put it into those words exactly. That may not have been how you wanted to come off, but that is how you've come off at times.