Getting the HoS in place.

[Sansaur]

So, after I discovered something about the chain of command that I had not noticed before, I asked an admin about this: "The HoP can fire and reassign people with other head's consent, can assign people freely, and can substitute the role of another head of staff in their absence, excluding Head of Security."

I really do not understand that, the admin explained me these points:

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1) The captain is not part of the Security Team even though he has authority over them.
2) Supposedly, the Head of Security is the crewmember CentComm must trust the most, as he is "expected to mantain the rule of law as set forth by Central Command regardless of circumstance"
3) "A normal Head is expected to manage his department and little else [...] HoS is expected to perform more militant duties during emergencies, which most civilians are not normally considered capable of"
4) "The HoS is the one expected to be the sane man in a sea of madness"

Well then. WALLS OF TEXT AHEAD, THAT'S WHY I USED SPOILERS

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1) I see how this works, the captain is able to COMMAND the Security Team, as he is supposed to be a leader, and he is also supposed to know the corporate regulations to great detail and he is supposed to be able to follow the standard operating procedure with exactitude. And he is NOT PART of the security team because he's not supposed to be able to fight (Though many captains probably are capable of doing so), even if he may assist the security team in times of need, he should not be chasing criminals, arresting people, performing forensic scans/autopsies or discussing how much time put on the timer.

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2) But now, if the Head of Security is the "Crewmember CentComm trusts the most", why are Internal Affairs Agents needed? Shouldn't the Head of Security writing reports about how the station is following the standard operating procedure, checking on the crew to see if they are doing their job properly, keeping an eye for corruption on the departments, and all that? Heads of Security on this server are actually like 10 times better than any other I've been, but they still are not an "Special member of the staff" and they still fall to the investigations of the IAA, if the IAA finds the HoS is corrupt/getting vored while people are comitting crimes, they still get punished.

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3) This is the point that really tingled me on the inside So, we are on an emergency right now, lets imagine something the crew has not seen before, like nuke ops or something of the like, what do we see? We can see the security team, armed to the teeth, defending the pride of the station, fighting until the very end, losing men and loved ones to the enemy while the rest of the crew flees towards the emergency shuttle. NO. We see the whole station working together to fight against that common enemy, the Civilian staff should be hiding about, and they are not exactly useless on this situation either, the Cargo Team bringing in supplies, the Miners getting those minerals the R&D needs, the Chef cooking stuff as quickly as possible to keep security well fed, the Bartender may be using his shotgun to protect himself and others... And then we get to the departments, the Medics are keeping people alive and able to fight against the emergency, cloning people, developing medicine and chemicals that allow for better combat abilities and aiding injured crewmates on the field. The Engineering wing repairing the damage caused by the invaders, putting away possible fires, checking that the crew has a suitable place to stay and building machines to replace those destroyed by the enemy. The research division would be developing new weapons or devices that can help the crew, investing time on the xenobiology and possibly checking on the toxins lab so noone blows up half of the station... Can we assume for once that the Security Team IS NOT SPECIAL, EVERYONE HAS A PLACE ON THE STATION, GEEZ

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4) Lets put a sane HoS against any other insane Head of the Staff.
Insane Captain = HoS gets tricked into a "high importance meeting" and gets his ass destroyed, captain proceeds to take over the station
Insane HoP = All-access, nuff said
Insane CE = How'd the HoS fare against a 0 oxygen, 0 energy, 0K station? And of course, the CE has the whole collection of oxygen tanks of the station in his backpack and a polished voidsuit to complement.
Insane CMO = Hypospray, chemicals, grenades, and if the HoS ends up requiring medical intervention, he is fucked.
Insane RD = Well, the least impactful of them all... until the whole station gets mauled by monsters and the RD is armed with laser cannons.

Well, if we add two plus two we'd end up having: Every head of the staff is supposed to be sane mentally and be able to control the madness that comes with their department, both from the outside and from the inside, the HoS is not special on this aspect and noone seems like they are.

Phew, all this just to say: "I want the Head of Personnel to be able to substitute the HoS if he is missing because I don't believe the HoS is any different from any head of the staff". And the reasoning behind is: "The Head of Personnel, while substituting the Head of Security, would do as a captain with no knowledge of field combat would do, commanding and instructing orders instead of getting into a fight" and I may add: "If there was no captain, but there was a head of security, the Head of Personnel would take the Captain's place and become acting captain, where he would command and instruct orders to the security staff and not get involved in the actual procedure"

So, that's that. I'd say an acting HoS would work the same as any other acting Head of the Staff, I don't see no difference in their work except for the fields of knowledge, of course.

[Kayleen]

Hahaha no.

Hopcurity is quite broadly despised.

In fact, I disagree with the idea that the HoP should be able to substitute themselves for any head of staff. "Stay in your department" is a rule.

[a bunch of moths in a swat suit]

I don't know where "HoP can substitute for other heads" comes from, as far as I was aware it was pretty explicitly exceeding official power to actively interfere in the duties of other departments(HoS ordering docs to do this, CE telling R&D to do that)

[Vorrarkul]

I actually agree with a lot of what you said, but I also agree with the other responders that my solution is to take down the HoP's written capability to substitute ANY head, rather than make him able to run security. I once tried throwing my weight around as HoP, and I was met with incredulity from the entire security team; even if this becomes a written rule, any such HoP will be seen as a nosy pencil-pusher trying to act authoritative. Even the captain isn't supposed to run the departments himself; he's supposed to keep the other heads coordinated.
On another note, I've seen some people disagree on when someone can declare themselves acting captain; one side says it can be done at any captainless time, while others believe it is a special privilege only to be called upon in emergencies. In the name of reducing potential authority abuse, I'm in the latter camp.

[Sansaur]

So, having no head of a department is preferred before having the closest person to the captain there is as a substituting head of department? Well, cool.

I am pretty sure that the Head of Personnel is a member of the staff whose main knowledge is "how the station should be working as a whole", he is, after all, the one that handles job transfer and whose main tool is an "Employment records" console, he MAY not know how the departments work, but he knows how it's staff should be working, that's why supposedly he is able to substitute heads of the staff if they are missing, handling workers is his speciality, and that's one of the main reasons a head of the staff is needed.

If this is not enough explanation, then I guess there should be another way of substituting missing heads of the staff, realistically they are an important part of a group of people whose goal is to improve (R&D + Engi) or to work as a team (Medbay + SecStaff), all leaded by someone who is able to command them successfully.

And on the acting captain matter, the acting captain doesn't have all the powers of the actual captain, specially on the most sensitive of decisions, such as executions and cyborgizations. But for what I've experienced on the server, the acting captainship is not something that should be taken too harshly, I've even been witness of the warden being promoted to captain (not acting captain) because he was leaving, and no one has any complaint about that. I really don't think that being captain or not matters too much on this server aside from answering to high-risk permission requests or handling the most wicked of criminals.

I still believe that the Head of Personnel should be able to step in and command a department with no head on certain occasions, probably he should not be forcing engineers to be building dance floors all over the station, but maybe he can order a security officer to detain someone who's beating a crewmember up on the hallways.

[Arbon]

As a HoS main I generally tend to get involved in these sorts of discussions, the biggest issue I've seen with HoS is the fact they have no real access or potential access to act in emergencies. I keep having people on away missions ask "go into the teleported room and change the target location" only to get confused when I tell them the HoS would have to break through a wall to use or change the teleporter themselves.

The fact HoS can't set the alert level to blue (I've heard its been changed recently) and for the longest time if something goes wrong you've got a choice between Green or Red, if you want to set things to blue for suspicion of something you have to coordinate with another head. Hoping one is both on and awake.

The issue of firing, the fact a HoS by themselves has no actual access or method to fire and hire on security members, if there is someone on security that the HoS wants kicked out the Hos cannot actually fire them.

The most they can do is go find a captain or HoP to do it instead, and if one doesn't exist (or in one case, says "fuck this" and heads to cryo the instant we ask him to do is job) then you're left with taking the officer's ID and just letting them run around without one.

And of course, the fact that in emergencies the HoS is supposed to be third in line for acting captain, yet they are completely incapable of doing anything a captain is supposed to be able to do without bursting through a wall, which means in practice the CE is far more qualified and capable just because they can actually get to the spare ID when it's needed.

...

In regards to the HoP and taking over jobs, what a HoP or a captain should be doing if someone in their job isn't doing their work (or just not signed on at all) is hire a new person from some other job. Ask if there are any assistants who want transferred over to medical, ask if there are any officers who are looking for a promotion, if there isn't a head in each department then go promote someone until you have a full staff. Don't just instantly jump to doing the job yourself because then you might be too busy when someone needs hired or fired.

That said? There are still also times in which there is a person in said job, and they are just unresponsive. And times in which there's no one who would be reasonably trustworthy with a promotion, or OOCly capable of doing the job at all, and the job still needs done. In which case the people with all-access and all capability who CAN walk down and set the engine in the absence of someone else who knows engineering, who CAN walk into medbay and set up cloning in the absence of both medical personal or someone you can transfer who knows medical, SHOULD DO SO. Because again there isn't anyone else and /the job needs to get done/.

For non-emergency situations, such as "We don't have a HoS and no one is capable of handling a promotion" it genuinely is better to just have no one in that position than it is to try and let the captain or HoP fill in for things. If the station is exploding and aliens are invading and there's some cataclysmic outcome, sure, take charge, we need someone commanding things. For day to day boring situations we are expected to have to go some shifts without a head in each position, and most of the time a player can just deal with that absence.

[Aces]

The big thing is HoP acting as security at all has consistently gone badly, and we've just decided the guy who's supposed to be the equivalent of human affairs probably shouldn't be able to arm himself to the teeth with intimidating weapons and armor.

This rule gets bent if the Captain and security aren't around because then the HoP is Acting Captain. If there's a security issue and they're the only one who can handle it, they kind of have to. That is extremely rare however and does not warrant even carrying handcuffs much less using them. If the HoP is acting Captain, he should be assigning heads of staff to every department, if only temporarily. This means you should have an HoS before an issue appears.

The reason the HoP can take over other head jobs is as a contingency to help ease the burden of the Captain, until that Captain assigns more heads of staff. This is also to grant the HoP the authority to hire people to departments without double-checking with the Captain every six seconds. If no CE is on, the HoP can assign engineers, whereas normally they need to ask the CE to approve any job additions to the department of engineering. The HoP is a manager. A good HoP will recommend people to their Captain, and ultimately report that Captain to CentCom for lousy performance if no head jobs are filled despite ample candidates.



That all being said, I disagree with CentCom being more trusting of the HoS than anyone else. That simply isn't true. I don't know who told you that. Internal Affairs, HoS, Captain, and HoP all have loyalty implants and are bound to not work against the company.

Captain, like any job, shouldn't fuck with departments where there's already someone in charge.

[Sansaur]

I really liked your answer and I think I now will ask other questions about this topic.

I STILL BELIEVE THAT HOP SHOULD BE ABLE TO DIRECT DEPARTMENTS WITH MISSING STAFF. But before the HoP jumps into that, you are right, he should be searching for someone who's able to direct the department before going in himself, he is still the Head of Personnel, he's got a job of his own and he should first ask people inside the department if they are able to substitute the Head of said department before substituting him, only doing so if no one from the department is able to lead the team.

Well, unless this topic evolves into something on the lines of: "SECURITY TOO FUKIN BLAARGH" this probably could end with Arbon's helpful addition, before I leave, I want to say that this all started after my HoP character got scolded by a HoS because he "Involved himself on security matters" -> Ordering a security officer to stop chasing a singing engineer so he could stop a public catfight. After I have more bad experiences with the security team, I suppose I'll keep making more posts =_=.

[Aces]

In that context, I think what should have happened is you either speak to the HoS first, or if the HoS is being a shitter and defending shitcurity, you contact the Captain with your complaints. In this case, you had no authority to tell off the security officer. If you ARE acting Captain, or if HoS isn't around, again, the rules get bent. As acting Captain, you have the authority, but not the respect, to make such an order. As HoP subordinate to the Captain, you should just go directly to the Captain instead since there's no HoS to complain to about the officer's conduct.

[Sansaur]

HoS was missing and captain was -not active- (ERP), but as there was a captain I still get the blame, blerhg