Adminbuse - How far?

[smirky]

I have zero idea why you are complaining that you did something illegal and got caught, though? I had no idea you did it until I saw you literally standing there inside an area while CMO, a role I regularly play, has no access to. I did not sign on to demote you, I signed on to play, and was just walking around and noticed. Maybe you should be more sneaky next time? I could have done the same thing as captain or HoS or HoP. Would you be complaining then?

You completely misunderstoof the point of my post. This is not an admin complaint and it wasn't meant to be one - merely a list of malicious abuse I've experienced on the server.

And let's clarify something. Back then, I thought a CC Rep was indeed an observer. If a captain or a HoP would've arrived, the first thing I would've done was to run to them and give back my access. The reason I gave myself all access was not selfishness, but so I can solve any situation that arose on board of the station for the benefit of the crew. The official reason you cited when demoting me was that 'I was too close to nuke the station'. I told you I couldn't do it without the codes anyways. You said it's 'two steps too far anyways'. The nuke disk was in the captain's office all along, of course. In my opinion? You demoted me just because you could. I did not abuse that all access, I only had equipment from medbay and you could've simply asked me to give it back and I would've complied.

This whole 'instant demotion' thing is a common problem I see on here, by the way. Heads simply demote for the smallest of incidents instead of talking it over, analyzing mistakes and maybe trying to help the other to become the better player? Naaaah, demotions are easier :V

About the parapen incident. Let's review it a bit up closer, shall we...? You were a loyalty implanted CentCom representative and I was the non-loyalty implanted CMO. We were in medbay, I was flirting with you and your character responded sheepishly - we were roleplaying. When my character had enough of you being too meek and injected him with some CH from her hypospray. Cuffed him and dragged him to the psych room, where she jokingly began to lecture the cuffed Aronai about how to seduce a lady.

Then you started breaking character (whom your flavor text describes as shy). First, the stutter went away and you began asking to be let go. Of course, my character, being naive, eventually did so only to find herself parapenned a second later. What did you do? First off, you bragged about your 'achievement' in LOOC. The exact words were: 'I see your CH hypo and raise you a parapen' - like you made any efforts to acquire that parapen other then spawning it with the game panel. Then, the loyalty implanted CC Representative took the cuffed CMO to virology, raped and ate her, then digested her, practically murdering her for something that could be considered assault

That's all.

[Scree]

So the parapen was spawned in response to you giving them no-warning CH injections and dragging them off for a scene they weren't OOCly cool with?

Hahahaha yeah you're lucky you got away with being parapenned rather than being kicked from the server.

[smirky]

So the parapen was spawned in response to you giving them no-warning CH injections and dragging them off for a scene they weren't OOCly cool with?

Hahahaha yeah you're lucky you got away with being parapenned rather than being kicked from the server.

And from what exactly did you assume he wasn't cool with it OOCly...? He didn't LOOC/PM me anything about that.

Besides, there wasn't and there would've been no scene. It was nothing more than teasing.

But feel free to vomit up more baseless assumptions in a really condescending style, I'm cool with that OOCly :^)

[orbisa]

So the parapen was spawned in response to you giving them no-warning CH injections and dragging them off for a scene they weren't OOCly cool with?

Hahahaha yeah you're lucky you got away with being parapenned rather than being kicked from the server.

Meta comment: Scree, this was highly disrecpectful, players shouldn't feel attacked by admins when making a complain as serious as this, and if there was no looc or ((text)) there is no indication of OOC disregarding. Know that if I would had been on the same situation I would stop inmediatly with all my work on the code, and leave the station as it is, even going out of my way to inform other coders involved of what happened.

All said and done, this was an old report, Jer didn't do anything about it, Arokha is still an admin, Smirky still a player, so, this thread is not about judging each other, but to discuss if the behaviour would be appropaite.

Know this, if it was me in smirky position, I would react with hostility, I consider the actions of Arokha to be against the rules we players are suppose to follow, and consider the actions of Arokha a clear example of admin abuse.

Now, I also consider the support given to Arokha by other admins like is your case now Scree, also deplorable, and something I would not like to see. I still feel you are a great guy beside this particular action, and can even understand the sense of companionship between you guys, but there are moments like this where first you should investigate.

I still like you guys, and enjoy playing in the server, but you probably realized by now, I don't interact with any of you guys outside of events and this is kind of the reason why, walking gods destroy inmersion.

[Scree]

The reason I mention it is the player's history of knocking people down first and checking prefs later. This isn't the first time.
lolinjectcuffdragging people without RP is something else that I've seen them do. It's lead to awkward situations afterwards where the person has LOOC'd that they're not cool with it, then awkward silence, then OOCly "uh, should we just pretend this never happened?"
In fact, in that instance I had to step in as the LOOC conversation took a turn towards trying to talk the other player into doing fatal absorption when they weren't OOCly okay with it.
And they're now complaining about an item being spawned in a scene that I can assume was RP'd out - I mean, the whole "raped and ate" thing suggests that there was some RP going on there. If smirky didn't complain during the scene, and in fact went along with it, only to drag it out and complain about it now then I'm not going to consider that complaint valid.

Also I'll spawn shit for players that pray for it if it's for a scene and it's not too ludicrous. Done it with shrink rays, done it with all sorts of stuff. Maybe Arokha shouldn't have spawned a parapen. If it was in order to zero-RP robust the shit out of someone then it would definitely be actionable. It's likely not something that should be done often. The reason for my tone is essentially 'cause Smirky came out swinging with terms like "malicious abuse".

[smirky]

Nice try shifting the topic, Scree, but the things you've mentioned aren't relevant to our discussion at all.

First of all, as I already mentioned, this is NOT a complaint. I've already made formal complaints in private to Jer, I have no idea what the results are or were, but I'm certainly not asking YOU to do anything about this. Of course I didn't complain during the scene, as I wanted to observe to what lengths would Arokha exactly go.

Secondly, the point I tried to make, and which completely missed you, that raping and digesting someone as a loyalty implanted CC representative, who is supposed to be the ear, hand and mouth of Central Command and a supreme upholder of Space Law and SOP is mildly character and even rule-breaking. He had non-lethals, he had handcuffs, he had a whole security belt, he could've like just... arrested me. And demoted me - which would've been valid.

Once again, I'd like to enunciate that this is NOT an admin complaint. This is merely a a description of my experiences with admin abuse.

[Aces]

Fluff weapons have to get approved for admins like everyone else, and they are never more powerful. Although, some of them do sound extra scary. Joan has one such weapon. It's just an e-gun. But it SOUNDS like a Gauss rifle.

There's also a lot here which you're all discussing just fine and I have no desire to intervene.

However yesterday I saw one of my admins sitting around with a ninja suit on for no apparent reason. This gives credence to smirky's argument. There was no good reason to possess that. If CentCom wanted a suit sent in for field testing, they should have given it to a real scientist, and not one sitting around in the bar all day.

But, back to the matter at hand.

Of course I didn't complain during the scene, as I wanted to observe to what lengths would Arokha exactly go.

Apparently I need to drill this point so I've added it to the wiki page just now on our rules. Now there are no more excuses. This keeps being a problem with multiple people who decide to just suck it up and complain about it later instead of complaining when it's still a hot topic. So don't feel like I am singling you out. I've had this problem three times this week.

If someone violates these rules or otherwise negatively impacts your experience as a player, you are obligated as a player to speak to an admin as soon as possible, because we're not going to be able to practically respond to an issue that happened a days ago. We have plenty of active admins who can be contacted through Skype, Byond, our chatroom, and the forums.

Don't get me wrong. It's still valid for criticism. It's just less valid than it would normally be since it could have been resolved on the spot, in my opinion.

The rule for complaining about ERP violations has always been in place that you must complain as it is happening or we're not going to punish the person afterward when they unknowingly violate your prefs. Now this applies to all rules. If you see a rule being broken, or think someone's abusing their position, call it out. I've been called out numerous times for being too much of a hardass and it's avoided me banning people who didn't deserve it.

Secondly, the point I tried to make, and which completely missed you, that raping and digesting someone as a loyalty implanted CC representative, who is supposed to be the ear, hand and mouth of Central Command and a supreme upholder of Space Law and SOP is mildly character and even rule-breaking. He had non-lethals, he had handcuffs, he had a whole security belt, he could've like just... arrested me. And demoted me - which would've been valid.

Eventually there will be a wiki page to cover this but there is canonically a loophole in the loyalty implants that allows you to ignore it if your intention is to eat someone. The excuse for this is it involves needed self-preservation and well being, so it overrides the loyalty implant's usual functions. You don't really ever NEED to steal from your workplace. You don't ever NEED to really kill someone you don't like. You however do NEED to eat to survive. If you truly honestly see someone as food, it will trick your implant into viewing your target as food, then screws with the programming, which is my IC excuse for not cockblocking people who have implants from being able to do vore. You should have spoken up if you weren't okay with it. This falls under the ERP prefs rule.

[Mech__Warrior]

Secondly, the point I tried to make, and which completely missed you, that raping and digesting someone as a loyalty implanted CC representative, who is supposed to be the ear, hand and mouth of Central Command and a supreme upholder of Space Law and SOP is mildly character and even rule-breaking. He had non-lethals, he had handcuffs, he had a whole security belt, he could've like just... arrested me. And demoted me - which would've been valid.

Eventually there will be a wiki page to cover this but there is canonically a loophole in the loyalty implants that allows you to ignore it if your intention is to eat someone. The excuse for this is it involves needed self-preservation and well being, so it overrides the loyalty implant's usual functions. You don't really ever NEED to steal from your workplace. You don't ever NEED to really kill someone you don't like. You however do NEED to eat to survive. If you truly honestly see someone as food, it will trick your implant into viewing your target as food, then screws with the programming, which is my IC excuse for not cockblocking people who have implants from being able to do vore. You should have spoken up if you weren't okay with it. This falls under the ERP prefs rule.

But where does rape fall into these rules? Self preservation by ensuring the spread of your genes? Were both players OOCly consenting? Or am I misinterpreting this by thinking the CC rep is the one doing these things?

[Aces]

Secondly, the point I tried to make, and which completely missed you, that raping and digesting someone as a loyalty implanted CC representative, who is supposed to be the ear, hand and mouth of Central Command and a supreme upholder of Space Law and SOP is mildly character and even rule-breaking. He had non-lethals, he had handcuffs, he had a whole security belt, he could've like just... arrested me. And demoted me - which would've been valid.

Eventually there will be a wiki page to cover this but there is canonically a loophole in the loyalty implants that allows you to ignore it if your intention is to eat someone. The excuse for this is it involves needed self-preservation and well being, so it overrides the loyalty implant's usual functions. You don't really ever NEED to steal from your workplace. You don't ever NEED to really kill someone you don't like. You however do NEED to eat to survive. If you truly honestly see someone as food, it will trick your implant into viewing your target as food, then screws with the programming, which is my IC excuse for not cockblocking people who have implants from being able to do vore. You should have spoken up if you weren't okay with it. This falls under the ERP prefs rule.

But where does rape fall into these rules? Self preservation by ensuring the spread of your genes? Were both players OOCly consenting? Or am I misinterpreting this by thinking the CC rep is the one doing these things?

I bolded the part that matters to me, but it sounds like "No". However, one party failed to speak up. This was the mistake. And luckily it's not IRL rape.

I don't want to cockblock players from doing unwilling stuff because of a loyalty implant. Whether it's a CC rep or not doesn't matter. Lawyers, HoS, Captain, HoP, all have implants.

[orbisa]

Ok, let's move on and continue the debate...

What about when an admin spawns a sensitive item for others players, not themselves?

The other day Pyro deleted and spawned, to me, one of the Xenobiology machines, since it was borked beyond fixing and there is an issue on git now thanks to that discovery. This is the best reason for an admin to spawn something I believe, when it fixes one of the code shortcomings...

Now, where should the line be drawn? Should the admins spawn items to add fun to the rounds? convenience? should Kerena be given a Honk at round start, since we cannot get one now? should players work for the things they strive of? Like shipping 1000 sheets of plasma in exchange of a phazon, or sacrificing the clothes of 10 crewmembers for a smoke spell? Should they strive to kidnapp one captain to obtain the ninja suit, so that they can kidnapp four people more?