Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

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Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby Konkons » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:11 pm

For context: https://imgur.com/a/ESUEZwR

I'll be honest with y'all, this comes across as a 'no fun' ruling based on a few subjective reasoning on how the talon and heads fit in the lore. I personally see heads as middle management in the chain of command and Talon as just another opportunity for a side hustle for station characters. To say some manager cant moonlight their skills as an engineer (CE), their muscle as a bouncer (HoS), or anyone that had the money to earn themselves a pilot's license (literally anyone) is ignoring that this is a thing in real life. All I can offer you is anecdotal evidence from my own experiences but I assure you from CEOs to people with part time jobs do participate in gigs either for fun or the extra cash.

Why this comes across as a targeted no fun rule is the fact that admins have ignored other things that of the same effect break rule 5. From naval officers walking into very sketchy bars in full officer uniform (which would not only be risky getting them hurt but also raising some eyebrows from superiors/authorities). CC officers playing normal station characters and switching through jobs on a whim ("CentCom representatives have a strict non-interference policy on the station.") Exploration going out every shift to kill the wildlife living in their little cave homes. Players playing multiple higher learning degree required jobs to alien species that make no biological or logical sense. We literally see the silliest characters interact in the silliest situations yet we dont enforce these things for the same reason this ruling shouldnt be enforced in my opinion. Someone playing Talon as they should without this ruling hadn't negatively effected other players on the server proper from what I've seen. Just irked some peoples ooc understanding of how jobs work.

Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe someone can explain to me why this isnt just a 'it's a serious video game, you aren't being serious enough in my opinion' ruling
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby nerdass » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:06 pm

you're missing the perspective of the admin side of things where we have had to have talks with a ton of players who have been making absolutely ridiculous job combinations on a single character slot because of talon.
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby Scree » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:21 pm

Or people literally pulling a fucking heist on the vault as talon one shift then showing up as a head of staff on tether the next as if Nanotrasen would hire them at all, never mind as a head.
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby Kenzie » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:23 pm

it was pretty overdone.

ideally i would see talon/station characters 100% separated so i consider this only a step in the right direction. the main problem imo is that it makes talon feel like an extension of the tether instead of something actually distinct. when it docks half the people on board were your coworkers last shift and the other half are probably gonna be your coworkers next shift and that basically robs it of any potential for having unique character.

starting with just heads is a little bit arbitrary admittedly, but you could easily make some justification, maybe there is a no-compete clause in their work agreement or something, i've worked bottom-of-the-barrel jobs that still had those. although all lore is largely arbitrary to an extent.
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby nerdass » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:37 pm

if people keep running fucking raids on the tether as talon then maybe NT might just end up signing something like that into effect on people's contracts.

people keep treating talon like they're some kind of antag role. if those people keep doing that, they'll find themselves no longer welcome on our server.
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby Scree » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:39 pm

I'm also going to say that "you didn't ban X thing" is not a reason not to ban Y thing. So, what, because something slipped past the radar we now aren't allowed to restrict anything at all?
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby Heroman3003 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:51 pm

While I am not staff to respond to the reasoning behind it, I'd just say I support it, and would absolutely want to have it applied to Talon-Station switching as a whole. Talon feeling as something actually different from station is already a rarity with how often its same characters as station, and how its gameplay is same as exploration. At least having to play different characters that you'd never meet onstation would create some sense of originality and uniquness about it, IMO. I feel like excessive switching back and forth only ruins the only fun and unique thing talon currently has going for it, rather than adding to any fun.
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby Mr_Signmeup » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:43 pm

I feel like the Talon should be independent. The characters that play on it should have no ties what-so-ever to the station at all and their interaction with the station should only be for repairs, refueling, restocking and R&R. To be an independent scavenger one round and then a paper-pusher for Nanotrasen another round is jarring at best. Specially if conflict flared up in said shift as Talon. If your character had a negative interaction with Tether, why would you want to work there? Vice versa. If the Tether had a negative interaction with you, why would they hire you?
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby Konkons » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:51 pm

nerdass wrote:you're missing the perspective of the admin side of things where we have had to have talks with a ton of players who have been making absolutely ridiculous job combinations on a single character slot because of talon.


You're right, I dont have the perspective of admins, I cant. All I can offer is mine as a player who attempts to meld characters to roles and limitations they would have. It comes across as an ooc ruling to prevent something that seems completely reasonable rather than to curve players who are pushing the limits. If its overwhelming the staff capabilities, I can understand yet I still dont agree.

Scree wrote:Or people literally pulling a fucking heist on the vault as talon one shift then showing up as a head of staff on tether the next as if Nanotrasen would hire them at all, never mind as a head.


Thats self antagory which is already against the rules, the follow up is to the same effect anyone on any role doing it then coming on as the CD the next shift as the same character. Like nerdass says, if people keep treating talon like they're some kind of antag role, they'll find themselves no longer welcome on our server. Give em a boot yo

Scree wrote:I'm also going to say that "you didn't ban X thing" is not a reason not to ban Y thing. So, what, because something slipped past the radar we now aren't allowed to restrict anything at all?


I think its fair to ask for consistency when administrating a community/server. I aint making the argument that these slipped past the radar, they dont, they are apart of the server and not unrelated in train of thought to someone playing more than one role on a single character. Hell admins participate in the examples I gave. I dont think any of it should be OOCly enforced.

Now outside of the ruling;
As far as when it comes to asking for unique characters on Talon, its a fair argument to ask for a different experience than what you get on station. But basing it to having someone play an entirely different character than they want to play for your fun is when you lose me. Its about mutual enjoyment, if you want to make a character specifically for Talon, more power to you. But to others its fun to play their already established characters then working within the limitations set upon them by having a contract with NT, 'I cant do this as itll break certain stipulations set by NT', 'These dudes hate NT, I should be careful', 'I gotta go back to working with these people eventually, gotta act appropriately' ect.
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Re: Recent Talon Rule 5 Ruling

Postby Kenzie » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:34 am

i genuinely wouldn't expect someone's personal fun to be a relevant criterion wrt whether a rule intended to create a certain atmosphere is good or bad. more if the atmosphere itself turns out to be a nuisance to play around/with/in for people overall. a lot of people like playing the same static characters, this is fine and good. but there is precedent for you not being allowed to play one character for everything.

like i said, it was overdone, it didn't add to rp because people didn't seem to really rp the balance of working for two companies that you mentioned at all (see again; pirate talon flipflopping), so now it is getting restricted. it would theoretically still be possible to do with a sca but since it so far hasn't been done interestingly/sparingly this will cut back on it.
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