Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

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Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby nerdass » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:17 pm

so yeah, continuation of github nonsense.

pilot's a symptom of role bloat, it's the appendix of the vorestation body, probably served a valuable purpose in the past, but honestly, pretty fucking useless nowadays.

the job was created originally if i remember right because explorers would occasionally fuck off with the shuttle, and it was deemed a good way to add a little bit of fluff that FLYING SHIP SUPER HARD THING.

but like, now a ton of departments have their own shuttles. This means that at the very least, how to fly a ship could be considered part of the training package for a TON of different positions.

Instead of keeping pilot as a job, i propose we axe it entirely, and make a bunch of alt titles for the existing departments, since they already have their own shuttles.

Engineering could get EVA Specialist
Mining could get Cargo Hauler
Medical could... well, medical already has paramedics. Now they can drive the ambulance with a fancy new alt-title, wee-woo, wee-woo.
Does security have a shuttle? Eh, if they do, or if they get one, it could be like, Transporter. Gotta' edgy name, there, redsuits.

Explorers could get, well, Shuttle Pilot. Since like, we have a shuttle, and it needs a pilot.

Give the exploration shuttle a requirement of basic department access to open the door, and bam, explorers still have their pilot role, but now all the other jobs can have neat little pilots too since they like, have shuttles, too.

we made shuttles an every department thing, pilot still existing as its own role conflicts with that, because it makes some people feel like they need a pilot to use their fancy departmental toys, which is not true even in the slightest.

tl;dr pilot no longer needed as its own thing, make it an alt title.


and anything that would get added to make pilot be a big boy required job would probably end up fucking over all the other departments that have their own shuttles, and i'm absolutely sure that locking people out of their own departments because they need an explorer to use their own toys is completely and utterly not what ANYONE wants.

If that's what you do want, and what you think is good design... who hurt you?
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby nerdass » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:20 pm

oh, also, maybe we could get an admin button that announces the daedalus sent us over a spare shuttle if some doodohead fucks it up that spawns in a new shuttle rather than locking the entire role out for the rest of the shift
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby Aces » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:26 pm

nerdass wrote:oh, also, maybe we could get an admin button that announces the daedalus sent us over a spare shuttle if some doodohead fucks it up that spawns in a new shuttle rather than locking the entire role out for the rest of the shift


Or just CentCom. Lore meeting seemed to imply that warships like Daedalus are going away or getting nerfed to a smaller security ship potentially. I don't think the Daedalus would have spare shuttles aboard, point being.
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby Mr_Signmeup » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:28 pm

With the new overmap system in place, the station will need to have people that understands how the overmap system works and how to safely get people from point A to point B. Can't just let any random chucklenut start piloting shuttles now. If people wish to train themselves in piloting before taking the job, I highly recommend they download the source code and boot up a test server for themselves!

But, really. Since pilots can now actually pilot and not... just click a simple button, there's is a lot more justification to keep pilots around. As mentioned in the discord, now you gotta worry about fuel mix, avoiding asteroids, adjusting speeds, etc. There's more to the job than there previously was and getting rid of it seems detrimental imo.
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby nerdass » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:29 pm

Aces wrote:
nerdass wrote:oh, also, maybe we could get an admin button that announces the daedalus sent us over a spare shuttle if some doodohead fucks it up that spawns in a new shuttle rather than locking the entire role out for the rest of the shift


Or just CentCom. Lore meeting seemed to imply that warships like Daedalus are going away or getting nerfed to a smaller security ship potentially. I don't think the Daedalus would have spare shuttles aboard, point being.


oh yeah true, i'd assume that there's an entire fleet of the things somewhere in a warehouse, considering how small they are.
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby Heroman3003 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:37 pm

Regarding jobs for departments: I don't think engineering has a shuttle yet (only ideas) and mining shuttle isn't overmap style shuttle (IIRC) so its own subrole for those departments is pretty redundant. That only leaves medical and exploration.

I feel like even with Overmap being there, Pilot still doesn't really need to exist as its own job. At best, now it makes sense as alt-title. Looking at how exploration happens, right now there is basically "Time when pilot works and explorers wait" (flying to destination) and "Time when explorers work and pilot waits" (expedition itself). And that's honestly very dumb. There's no reason for those weird downtimes to really exist, and shuttle should really be pilotable by all explorers.

Regarding the "explorers will hijack shutttle" argument: that won't be any different from pilots doing it. Pilot access limitation is entirely artificial.

Regarding the "but I specifically didn't learn/learned only pilot stuff in my expedition character!" argument: what stops it from still being same way? I don't see anything creating too big a ripple to ruin your ability to play character by removing a role that has no reason to be separate.

Regarding the "overmap makes it so pilot has full-on stuff to do now!" argument: this does not change that after landing they're either to just sit and wait or do same things as rest of explorers. And explorers themselves don't have much to do while the bus is flying either.

Only way I can see Pilots being its own job is if they are entirely untied to any department and are back as full civilian, and with piloting ALL overmap shuttles becoming pilot-only thing, not just tourbus. Otherwise, them being separate job is just waste of joblist space.
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby TheDavestDave » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:58 pm

some people in the discord have brought up the issue of explorer plays OOCly not knowing how to fly the shuttle and getting it lost if they became an alt-tile or chemist like postion.

I don't know why they don't know how to oocly fly the shuttle that seems like a problem if we wanted new pilots.

that could even be why we don't have new pilots
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby nerdass » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:26 pm

yeah like with a role limitation it creates another barrier to entry because i can one hundred percent guarantee you that if someone takes the pilot role and doesn't know how to fly the shuttle all that well, they gonna get shamed super hard
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby Bricker98 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:50 am

Things to say here: what nerdass is explaining here is not what was said in the github, sounds much better than the original REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE that we all love and care for, that said, I still think that we should keep the limitted access.
To quote our dear, chemistry obsessed user here, I am pretty sure we are one of the few ss13 servers that has free chemistry access, in most other stations, it is locked because of it's potential for antags/shitters.
Same here, what stops an explorer to take the now limitless shuttle for a glory ride and get himself killed in the first fifty seconds of reaching his destination, if he even does? Or to run away from security into space?
yeah like with a role limitation it creates another barrier to entry because i can one hundred percent guarantee you that if someone takes the pilot role and doesn't know how to fly the shuttle all that well, they gonna get shamed super hard

You say this like we are not going to shame to the ground any random explorer that does a full exploration wipe because they really wanted to go throught that asteroid field, because "trust me, i am a pilot.", nah man, is going to happen the same way or worse, because now they are not shamed away from pilot, they are shamed away from the full explorer role, "but wait, that's illegal.", well, lots of illegal seems to happen, according, once more, to our trusty chemistry obssesed user, where are the ahelps?
there seems to be some kind of internal snark towards people whose backstory has the P word...okay? Yeah, because that's how people work, is not like we have character who are medics on their backstory but can't use a syringe for their dear life, oh, wait, we do.

And again, pilots now interact with the station and have a set of things to do, but that seems to enter one ear and leave the other one.
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Re: Pilots! Love em' or leave em.

Postby Sebbe » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:26 am

I really don't see why we should change how pilots are currently at all.

Piloting is a skill now where you gotta know the limits of fuel and what glowy dots on the map will kill you or not. Pilots are respected and come planetside with the crew anyways if they want to, them staying on the ship is completely up to them.
This change suggestion seems to be mostly from expecting piloting to be the same as it was prior where it's just some button presses where now it's actually somewhat real piloting.

Best you can do is message people that play pilot and hear with them instead of doing another "station consensus" as that really doesn't make sense.

Like with genetics, don't remove if you don't have a fix.
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