Pirate Antags - Your True Thoughts!

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Re: Pirate Antags - Your True Thoughts!

Postby bitesthedust » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 am

I'm gonna make a more indepth post later but I just wanted to clarify something real quick.

The ai started locking us down before the mech came into the picture. They intercepted a suspicious pda message sent between the two of us, then attempted to lock konor down while alerting security. We only went for the mech when we realized the ai was about to lock us in for good, effectively ending the pirating before it even had a chance to start. Had ai not locked us down, we would've proceeded with the vore antaggery.
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Re: Pirate Antags - Your True Thoughts!

Postby Ketrai » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:32 am

Note that despite playing on an off, including high profile roles from time to time. I have not seen a single thing to do with pirates. I've yet to hear anything during those low-med pop shifts I play on. As is customary for the fennec anyways, to miss every single detail of an event going on, usually due to timezones. I find it funny that I didn't even catch a hint of this kind of stuff despite it being ongoing for months. So I can only offer my thoughts. I'd probably offer to play an antag myself, if not it's because of the fact that it's rare for stations around my timezone to even reach a decent pop of 20 anymore. With a skeleton shift it's better to just be consensually evil. Pref-consensually so. If you catch my drift.

The ai usually being tattlers has been a problem prior to this event anyways. When you want to do anything mildly illegal, such as breaking into medical to get a saw for a scene or something, or even more harmless than that, steal one of the many spare shovels from mining. Chances are the ai is just zipping around on camera hyperspeed, blinking from one camera to the flipping other to keep track of every single crew member constantly. And then they start to scream for security. It's basically the same as skipping roleplay, and just going full on mechanics. Sure, you're a sentient AI box that doesn't have anything else to them but a messaging server, a heap of cameras, and holopads. Because those are your main tools/features, don't mean you should just full on marry em. Those holopad thingies? Why don't you pop in front of some crew, and ask them annoying philosophical questions that could only be generated by something not truly human? You don't have to be a massive killjoy, I swear some AI just cruise around them cameras constantly to be a killjoy, not to look for anything interesting.

It doesn't even work on this server anyways. We don't have that many people, and unlike other stations, we don't create a flipping mess all the time either. There's no common slime chaos in xenobio to watch out for like other servers, there's only a few antags, usually lone ones. So picking them out of what could potentially be a mass of antags, isn't that hard. Catching all one-twelve or some ludicrously high number of antags doing the bad at the same time is virtually impossible. But if there's only one? Now that makes your job very easy now doesn't it? Especially with the rest of the crew being tame, as there's little reason to cause a ruckus... Someone breaks a camera? Well that can only be one of the known 5 troublemakers. It's a new face? Fuuuu, antag alert. Security get that bastard whilst I just lock them in at hyper speed. You know what, I'm going to be the best model of hal 9000; and just silently message security whilst locking down all the doors in a 20 metres radius, and silently broadcast. "I'm sorry dave-" as I reverse the air flo-.

Anyways, I think you get the point. Allow people to have their fun a bit. I don't really see how this is that much different from validhunting but on a legal way.
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Re: Pirate Antags - Your True Thoughts!

Postby Konkons » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:50 am

Ketrai honestly put it better than I ever could. They pretty much summed up my thoughts on AI. I enjoy the thought of an AI questioning the motive of (or confronting) a trouble maker with the use a holopad. What I dont enjoy was what Ketrai described;
just silently message security whilst locking down all the doors in a 20 metres radius
which is exactly what happened during the Dragoon event.
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Re: Pirate Antags - Your True Thoughts!

Postby Vorrarkul » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:01 am

So, I will preface this with the fact that I have never had an interaction with a pirate since their inception.

Originally, I was of two minds about the pirates. On one hand, I was hoping (and still am hoping) that my characters would be targeted by the pirates for kidnapping fun since it somehow... adds to the idea of noncon scenes, for me. On the other, this nebulous addition to it makes me feel a bit paranoid as a security officer; I usually ignore smaller crimes in the interest of not ruining someone's day or not getting in the way of a scene, but in some hard-to-define way, antags feel like a breach of this trust I give to preds.

The above paragraph may be written in the present tense, but that is because I had a minor revelation while writing it and decided to leave it intact for posterity. Said revelation is the idea of "just what separates an antag from a pred?", and the answer I came up with is "some colored text at the end of the round not even that, upon inquiry!". Maybe it was the idea of 'winning' infecting my view on it but I think I've figured out how to stop worrying about it. With that said...

...I'm not sure how to knock people out of the mindset that pirates are antags and antags must be defeated, and I'm rather certain my ramblings aren't gonna cut it. In fact, I think the very fact we're calling them antags is one part of this problem; they immediately get slapped with the VALID label whether you want them to be or not.
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Re: Pirate Antags - Your True Thoughts!

Postby Haery70 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:09 pm

Vorrarkul wrote:On one hand, I was hoping (and still am hoping) that my characters would be targeted by the pirates for kidnapping fun since it somehow... adds to the idea of noncon scenes, for me.

Same in my book, I'll remember this for when I make an antag character for kidnapping shenanigans.

All jokes aside, I like the concept behind the current pirate events and how it's mean't to bring a more opportunistic way of doing vore, but it seems to go down south a couple of times. Many factors such as player unpredictability and lack of desire for players to want them are oftentimes the underlying cause of the Pirate events not only going south, but not even happening at all. Despite the fact that antags have always been a thing on the server, some players have this mentality that antags don't exist on the server at all, so it leads to them believing that the shifts go stale and can lead to either Security becoming Gestapo or greytiders making things less fun for players by causing collateral damage. But, the main issue is that we don't have that many players who are willing to be an antag since most of them come here to get away from the antag-induced drama caused by other servers. Prefs are another issue because a pirate who wants to do vore will be unable to target certain crew if the prefs don't line up, so it can lead to an antag event never being set in stone. There's also this mentality going on that puts people in an 'Us vs Them' mentality and goes for the purge/kill button every time we get wind of an antag event going on.

My thoughts on these are a lot more than what is posted, but I chose to shave it due to how much I was putting on there and I might be off-point at this time. All-in-all the pirate events sound like a good idea, but you can't get them to be creative with vore if you're unable to execute it.
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Re: Pirate Antags - Your True Thoughts!

Postby Aethirshero » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:29 pm

Posting again, I know, I know, but what Vorra and Haery have said has made me think.

This "Us vs. Them" mentality seems to be a large problem on this server when it comes to any sort of antag related event. People in our community just flat out don't want to lose. They hate it. And that leads to a lot of problems when it comes to these sorts of events, since neither side is willing to lose. It leads to escalation and mechanics over RP. It's... sort of the same thing as those people who keep escalating in a combat RP until they're flat out god-modding each other, but in this case it goes outside of RP to the game mechanics.

I think if -everyone- took a step back and realized that we're all in this to have fun together, then maybe these things could work better? Pirates understand that maybe they can lose, but also crew members understand that the pirates are here to have fun too. Screwing them over and making it impossible for them to do anything isn't fun. Playing out a tense situation through RP can be a lot of fun, more so than simply grabbing a gun and going full auto on everyone.
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