Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

A general area for the general things that generally happen in our server.

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Wickedtemp » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:25 pm

Scree wrote:I've seen a few people in this thread with complaints that amount to "I don't like them because all the other players want to interact with them"

"All the players want to interact with it" is a pretty asinine thing to complain about when it comes to events. Giving players something to interact with that they want to interact with is pretty much the entire point of events.



Aces wrote:I concur with Scree.


I mean... that's not even a fourth of the actual stance. Left off the bit about people, because they want to interact with the shadekin, turning off lights in areas like the bar and cafe's, places were other players might want to roleplay, but now can no longer do so without being hindered, annoyed, or possibly thrown out because they can't see. Honestly, if shadekin are changed somewhat so that they can tolerate light, even if they are annoyed by it lore-wise, I think it'd fix quite a few of the complaints. That still leaves their wall-phasing and all of their other 'abilities', and they keep the lore that light tends to irritate them. They might even be played as still greatly preferring darker spots, but then they wouldn't go around annoying others by breaking lights and causing crew to do the same in order to win their favor.
User avatar
Wickedtemp
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:35 am

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Vorrarkul » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:00 pm

Scree wrote:I've seen a few people in this thread with complaints that amount to "I don't like them because all the other players want to interact with them"

"All the players want to interact with it" is a pretty asinine thing to complain about when it comes to events. Giving players something to interact with that they want to interact with is pretty much the entire point of events.


Hello. I've been observing this thread for a while now, and this post finally spurred me to comment.

If I may be so bold as to ask: who exactly was saying that? From what I read, literally the only post that could possibly be interpreted as saying that and only that is iiVoracious's, and that's only because of the vagueness of "childish bickering".
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Vorrarkul
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:54 pm

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Knightfall » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:15 am

Turreus wrote:
Scree wrote:I've seen a few people in this thread with complaints that amount to "I don't like them because all the other players want to interact with them"

"All the players want to interact with it" is a pretty asinine thing to complain about when it comes to events. Giving players something to interact with that they want to interact with is pretty much the entire point of events.


I think it's less that they're complaining about other people wanting to interact with them at all, but rather that what they do in the process of trying to interact with Shadekin are making the station a bit less pleasant.

I imagine it's pretty annoying to go what's expected to be a normal shift, and find that the bar (or some other public area meant to be inclusive to the station's crew as a whole) has pretty much been completely shut off to anyone without darksight, all because some people are horny for the teleporting vore-foxes (as heroman has alleged earlier in the thread).

I'm not going to bother weighing in with my whole opinion, so i'm just going to chime in with what I believe to be the bulk of the problem and my offered solution:

At this point, i'd wager it's pretty fair to say that there's two distinct camps when it comes to shadekin; people who want to scene with them, and people who want nothing to do with them. The first group obviously have no problem with their current implementation, but it seems many members of the second have some pretty severe complaints. I think we can make the latter group a bit happier with some small concessions, nothing that would affect the enjoyment for those of us who like having them around:

  • Warning to their arrival either prior to the round, or very early on within (heck, maybe put it in the "custom event info" for shadekin rounds). With this in place, players/characters who can't tolerate their presence can either just not join in the round, or clear out without having wasted much time on-station. Heck, the pro-shadekin crowd may even appreciate the change, as they'll have an easier time figuring out whether it's a good idea to hop on.
  • In the event that a shadekin has to be put into the round without warning, simply restrict their presence in areas that are either commonly used by the crew, or otherwise needed for somebody's job. It won't disrupt the interested (who'll undoubtedly follow them wherever they spawn), and those annoyed can go about their shift without being overly-disrupted by their presence.

Does this sound reasonable enough? It's the best I can come up with on short notice.


One, I don't have any issue with people wanting to interact with Shadekin. The issue I have is them completely running those who don't out of a round and suggesting they just leave the station, which is what happened to me last time there was a Shadekin event. Secondly, a warning that the round is Shadekin round is garbage because rounds last five and a half hours, and that is a long time for us to just not play, quite possibly all the free time we had in a day to play. The easiest solution here is to tell people to stop aggressively trying to kick people out of public places, or take the event somewhere it won't bother all the people looking for a scene that doesn't involve a Shadekin. I have zero issue with Shadekin in the bar, I have a ton of issues with people telling me to leave the station and yelling at me because I'm in the bar and not interested in the same thing they are.
Knightfall
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:03 pm

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby ktccd » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:16 am

Scree wrote:I've seen a few people in this thread with complaints that amount to "I don't like them because all the other players want to interact with them"

"All the players want to interact with it" is a pretty asinine thing to complain about when it comes to events. Giving players something to interact with that they want to interact with is pretty much the entire point of events.


Aces wrote:I concur with Scree.


Feels kind of disparaging to have our opinions either ignored or bundled up into this... strawman version of our opinions.
Reading through the thread, that's not at all the feeling I got from most complaints as being the focus of the problem.
ktccd
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:11 pm

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Heroman3003 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:43 am

Scree wrote:I've seen a few people in this thread with complaints that amount to "I don't like them because all the other players want to interact with them"

"All the players want to interact with it" is a pretty asinine thing to complain about when it comes to events. Giving players something to interact with that they want to interact with is pretty much the entire point of events.



Aces wrote:I concur with Scree.


This is not a complaint I've seen in this thread at all. Perhaps some pointing fingers to better examples? As I did see complaints about HOW players are going about interacting or NOT interacting or even BEING shadekin that are being discussed. Nobody I've seen in this thread brought up 'people interacting with shadekin and not something else' as an actual issue. Now, HOW that happens, is entirely different story, but the fact that it does happen is not being a problem here.

This feels more like trying to make it seem like that 'issue' that doesn't even exist in any way among primary bulk of criticism was main one and answered to, disregarding all the main problems people have with way shadekin events go.
User avatar
Heroman3003
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby TheDavestDave » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:54 am

In what job would I still be employed if I smashed all the lights becuase I saw a kitten or puppy or other cute thing about? If instead of doing my job I broke in to any place I thought this cute thing would be by tearing down walls and doors? And if someone replaced thoose lights and I started threatening them for doing so. In what planet would I not be arrest on? You've banned people for doing that without shadekin.
TheDavestDave
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 10:57 am

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby aerowing » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:46 am

Scree wrote:I've seen a few people in this thread with complaints that amount to "I don't like them because all the other players want to interact with them"

"All the players want to interact with it" is a pretty asinine thing to complain about when it comes to events. Giving players something to interact with that they want to interact with is pretty much the entire point of events.


Aces wrote:I concur with Scree.


Wait what? I've been holding my tongue on the matter and watching on the sidelines because I haven't had the chance to be in a round where these shadekin were present but I strongly encourage both of you to reread what people here are saying carefully. That doesn't stand out to me as the issues at hand here.

Since I've had to step up I might as well give my own regards here. From what I'm seeing here from the people posting, we have some fair avenues that we can take to balance this out. If we want a communal space to play with shadekin, why not use the cafe over the bar? I couldn't think of a better environment that could logically be run in a 'dim light' considering it's a cafe, can easily write it off as a bebop style cafe, take things your own way within. This would both give an active communal space for the shadekin and those who want to play with them while still allowing those with little or no interest to make use of the bar unhindered by it, respecting their preference to not have to deal with the shadekin.

Additionally, I think it would be great to actually restrict asteroid access to the shadekin. From a logical standpoint NT could support this. It would allow these creatures access to the facilities they need to be around (science, cafe, etc.), and restrict areas that would be high risk (bridge, power/engineering, security/armory, medical, EVA, IAA, etc.). Should a shadekin need to be up there then you can have a policy that forces them to be under escort/heavy supervision while they are up there due to the high risk level presented.

These are just my own ideas from what I have heard previously and read here. As a community we should be welcoming and able to adapt around this, shadekin might hold a negative stigma for a while but if this is handled correctly they might be able to recover and be a pleasant experience for everyone.
User avatar
aerowing
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Scree » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:44 am

I didn't say "this is your entire argument and I'm reducing it to that". I said I'd seen people bringing that up as a point.
Such as:
I hate the all work stops because everyone goes marr chaseing. I understand sec and science stopping. But the whole station shouldn't be chaseing this.


This is tantamount to saying we should remove dorms because people stopped doing work to scene in the dorms. The problem is not the dorms here.

Wickedtemp brought up some suggestions about the way light effects them, but the thing is, a lot of the time players turning off the lights is actually unnecessary. Last time my orange-eyes showed up I had people trying to lead it into maintenance to get it somewhere dark that it would like, but it'd been hanging out in a dark place for absolutely ages at that point (eating someone as it happens), was completely charged, and oranges don't lose energy in the light, so all the people trying to lead it off just got a funny look and a "mar" as it tried to get their attention onto the bag it was trying to give them full of its prey's stuff.

A couple of people have raised complaints about the bar in particular, complaining that people are hanging out with the shadekin in the bar, and in all honesty - unless you're the bartender, you have no more right to the bar than any other player. If you go into the bar and want to get mad 'cause a kin's in there and half a dozen people interacting with the 'kin, then I honestly don't think it's reasonable that they should have to leave the bar so you can sit there.

The bar's big enough anyway. Just unplug one light tube in the corner and voila, you've got a dark spot for them to sit. Literally no shadekin require total darkness to maintain their energy. Yellows and purples lose it slowly at over 50% light on a tile, and greens lose it very slowly at over 75% lit. Maybe some instruction to the shadekin players on "hey, you don't need to darken fucking everything, just a small spot to sit in is plenty". For reference, the threshold for xenochimera to hallucinate in the light while feral is 10%. If your room is as well-lit as your average maintenance tunnel while not directly under a light, that's plenty dark enough for 'kin. Hell, oranges require even less light than other shadekin before their passive regen kicks in, and even then I was able to regenerate in the medical breakroom by taking a single light tube out and standing in the corner.

tl;dr let us know if people are going around destroying every light or the shadekin are acting like they need every light destroyed, because while it's true that they prefer the dark it's far from a requirement.
User avatar
Scree
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Vorrarkul » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:19 pm

Scree wrote:I didn't say "this is your entire argument and I'm reducing it to that". I said I'd seen people bringing that up as a point.
Such as:
I hate the all work stops because everyone goes marr chaseing. I understand sec and science stopping. But the whole station shouldn't be chaseing this.


This is tantamount to saying we should remove dorms because people stopped doing work to scene in the dorms. The problem is not the dorms here.

That's all well and good, but the post you took that from included many other complaints. Especially with your usage of certain words- such as asinine- it certainly did give off a dismissive attitude.

Scree wrote:Wickedtemp brought up some suggestions about the way light effects them, but the thing is, a lot of the time players turning off the lights is actually unnecessary. Last time my orange-eyes showed up I had people trying to lead it into maintenance to get it somewhere dark that it would like, but it'd been hanging out in a dark place for absolutely ages at that point (eating someone as it happens), was completely charged, and oranges don't lose energy in the light, so all the people trying to lead it off just got a funny look and a "mar" as it tried to get their attention onto the bag it was trying to give them full of its prey's stuff.

No problem with this paragraph.

Scree wrote:A couple of people have raised complaints about the bar in particular, complaining that people are hanging out with the shadekin in the bar, and in all honesty - unless you're the bartender, you have no more right to the bar than any other player. If you go into the bar and want to get mad 'cause a kin's in there and half a dozen people interacting with the 'kin, then I honestly don't think it's reasonable that they should have to leave the bar so you can sit there.

That's all well and good, but that's not what people are arguing. They aren't complaining there's a marr fanclub in the bar, they're complaining that the marr fanclub is taking over the bar, taking out the lights and complaining at people who try to turn some lights back on. It's not that they're popular, it's that the group of people who like them can be very disruptive.

Scree wrote:The bar's big enough anyway. Just unplug one light tube in the corner and voila, you've got a dark spot for them to sit. Literally no shadekin require total darkness to maintain their energy. Yellows and purples lose it slowly at over 50% light on a tile, and greens lose it very slowly at over 75% lit. Maybe some instruction to the shadekin players on "hey, you don't need to darken fucking everything, just a small spot to sit in is plenty". For reference, the threshold for xenochimera to hallucinate in the light while feral is 10%. If your room is as well-lit as your average maintenance tunnel while not directly under a light, that's plenty dark enough for 'kin. Hell, oranges require even less light than other shadekin before their passive regen kicks in, and even then I was able to regenerate in the medical breakroom by taking a single light tube out and standing in the corner.

tl;dr let us know if people are going around destroying every light or the shadekin are acting like they need every light destroyed, because while it's true that they prefer the dark it's far from a requirement.

And I agree with this. People- especially both marrs and the marr fanboys- need to be made aware that total, absolute darkness isn't necessary.

My tl;dr- You brought up good points, certainly more than your previous post. I believe the reaction that was had was due to the wording- and simplistic post of approval from the head admin- making people feel you weren't really listening, by attacking a point that was not a major point of contention.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Vorrarkul
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:54 pm

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Turreus » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:57 pm

anyway, I believe we've all given out input now, and I fear this is going to just devolve into a back-and-forth between Scree and everyone else, so to advance things a little, figure it'd be a good idea to ask:

Now that those of you on the staff have our feedback, in what ways are you going to adjust future shadekin events?
User avatar
Turreus
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:53 am

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest