Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

A general area for the general things that generally happen in our server.

Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Wickedtemp » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:59 am

James Holder wrote:I think it would be nice to scene with/as shadekin, and I think they're interesting as long as they aren't getting in the way or making the entire station dark. In the earlier shadekin events, they were fairly elusive and there was actually a problem with people hunting them down to crowd around them and turnip, rather than the shadekin getting in the way. If they're going around snatching all the lights and being pests, that's just going to make them annoying. You'd expect the crew to treat them like solargrubs, hunt them with prejudice.

I'm disappointed in what I'm hearing about the red-eyed shadekin too. Apparently, it ate the engine and just murderboned Tempest. I was hoping the aggressive shadekin variety would aggressively explore and investigate the crew, not aggressively kill people for no apparent reason. Finally, ending the event with a deus ex machina sounds like the worst way you could end anything, next to blowing up the entire station.


It killed Tempest because I told them a day prior that I'm fine with it killing Tempest, they asked me if I'd be fine with Tempest being the first death of the event. It was a planned thing for Tempest to be the first death. That's why the red eyed shadekin didn't attack anybody else until Tempest ""accidentally"" stumbled into it. I'm honestly fine with Tempest dying in general, as long as it isn't due to a kink thing like digestion. Gunshots, stabbing, general killing is fine. Even if it IS blatant murderbone, I don't care, because shi's implanted and always has hir sensors on max, and if left to hir own devices, the Medbay can be prepped entirely, chemistry and all, in fifteen minutes. On Polaris, in order to prevent Medbay from countering antags, my Chemist/CMO character would intentionally be sought out at roundstart and axed ASAP, sometimes it was only one emote followed by attack-spam, and I'm fine with that. So... yeah. The shadekin death was planned, and even if it wasn't, I'd be fine with it. I guess the only times I wouldn't be is if it happens while I'm scheduling a scene.
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Ragnarok222 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:23 am

I'm really new around here so I know I don't really have too much say in this (I've been playing Kali Stevens, Sylvia Hathwell, and Allison Veel), but I've had amazing rounds against Shadekins and not-so-amazing rounds on Citadel's VORE server and the quality seemed to clearly come from two factors to me:

First and most importantly; the Shadekins' approach to interacting with the crew, second and to a lesser extent how the crew treats the presence of the Shadekin.

The first time I ever interacted with one was like a horror movie and it was perfect. I was alone in the pool when someone came by and asked if I'd seen a shadow ferret thing, and then moments after they left the lights started going funny. Since that was the first time I'd ever seen one I was unaware both ICly and OOCly what it could and would do and the guy playing it took the chance to slowly break the lights and toy with me a bit, and because Kali is the lovable dumbass who gets herself in trouble I didn't immediately rush off for help when I realized what was up. What followed was me just barely not being saved by sec and getting dragged around in it's belly while it taunted their failure for a few minutes before it spit me out. Then because apparently a bunch of people on Citadel aren't actually into vore it kept coming after me and trying to catch me alone. This led to them legitimately getting the drop on me twice when I discovered they could eat people by phasing in, and then when they managed to trick me into holding still so they could nab me again.

Yeah, I'd say it was pretty great. I had a lot of fun, and I've had other times playing since like the time he 'distracted' Kali ICly to keep her from reaching the tram in time so there would be no one on the station to risk saving her.

The time it wasn't so great was a red-eye Shadekin, and as soon as he was discovered by Sec one of the two officers online at the time immediately called for an evac and got everyone huddled in the tram station. This was a new guy playing Shadekin for the first time and it showed because all he did was sit in the Shadow Realm and ask who was into vore (because remember, not everyone was fine with it on a VORE server for some reason) and then trying to phase in and out repeatedly until he nabbed one of the acceptable targets. A few people tried to RP it out a bit, one person panicked and ran onto the rails, but by and large everyone was just trying to shuffle about randomly to keep him from being able to nab them so they could 'win.' The Shadekin was trying to help us by that point because if he managed to grab someone he just took them up a few floors and left them in maintenance somewhere. Hell, I don't even think he was playing for the last ten minutes of the round or so. Kali, the happy go lucky dumb ass with no appreciation for dangerous situations, went off alone and didn't encounter him and didn't hear anyone saying they'd even seen him on the radio. Meanwhile if he'd maybe stolen off with one person and then stalked in the shadows and threatened it would have been far more enjoyable. He tried to hold off from killing us all using the game mechanics instead of RP'ing it.

Heroman 3003 pretty much said what I wanted to say in far fewer words. When used to scene the Shadekin is great, when treated purely from a game perspective it's not because it's just OP to Hell. OP to Hell is great for a horror game because the feeling of helplessness is the point, but predators have to interact with it as well, as well as people like Chakat who didn't want to deal with it at all.

It makes me think of the quote, "If given the opportunity players with optimize the fun right out of a game."

If the Shadekin is being too optimal they're just going to go around making everywhere dark and being a nuisance then murdering everyone who tries to stop them.

If the players are being too optimal they're just going to evac the moment they hear 'red-eyed.'

I wasn't there for the 'Red-Eye' round on this server, but from the sounds of it if the Shadekin had been playing it a bit more softly, well, Tempset is a huge cat-taur (Sorry I forget the specifics, I've only seen you in two rounds) and should have been able to pretty easily scare off even a hostile Shadekin (Meaning the Shadekin should have left when they saw they weren't particularly wanted in medbay). Then the Shadekin could have gone off to terrorize the rest of the station (read; threaten to pick off those willing to be eaten, sometimes succeeding sometimes not, and if they decided to do something as big as destroying the engine give the crew a chance to stop them) without the crew thinking they have to to immediately just try to murder it back. As Nanaki said, the reaction to an antag that has killed is wildly different to one who hasn't. If the first thing heard about the Shadekin is just that it's there then people will be more tempered in their response. Throw in someone playing as Overseer to help coordinate the players to other options than "murder the Shadekin on sight" or "everybody evac immediately" and there's some room there for great games. The Shadekin can retreat to somewhere they are pretty much totally invulnerable at literally a moments notice, they really don't have a reason not to taunt and toy around a bit so they can judge the best way to approach whoever is present and make the game as fun as possible.

The other players reactions are a bit more tricky between people turniping and purposefully withholding information as Nanaki pointed out, but if someone gets the information they need to beat the 'kin and doesn't spread it then that means the 'kin needs to take more time to mess around and expose its weakness. Ideally their weakness should be widely known before they decide to eat the engine or anything else that will bork the whole server, giving the crew a fair chance to stop them. Once again the Shadekin has almost every advantage here, it's up to them to give the crew a chance to enjoy it.

TL;DR It's an RP server, people need to RP. If the Shadekin holds back and RP's it out so the crew has a chance to interact with them meaningfully then great things can happen and the Shadekin being all kinds of OP isn't an issue but a feature. If the Shadekin can't resist using their OP powers to their most optimal 'winning' strategy then no one but the Shadekin will have fun, and maybe not even them.


AAAAAND now that I'm about to submit this I see that killing Tempest was planned which kind of derails my point... Um, again I wasn't there so I don't know what happened, but it sounds like the first thing it did that was publicly known was kill Tempest. If that's the case then they probably should have held back for a bit, making themselves and their intentions known before they actually started. If not then I have no idea what I'm talking about.
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby James Holder » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:17 am

Wickedtemp wrote:
James Holder wrote:I think it would be nice to scene with/as shadekin, and I think they're interesting as long as they aren't getting in the way or making the entire station dark. In the earlier shadekin events, they were fairly elusive and there was actually a problem with people hunting them down to crowd around them and turnip, rather than the shadekin getting in the way. If they're going around snatching all the lights and being pests, that's just going to make them annoying. You'd expect the crew to treat them like solargrubs, hunt them with prejudice.

I'm disappointed in what I'm hearing about the red-eyed shadekin too. Apparently, it ate the engine and just murderboned Tempest. I was hoping the aggressive shadekin variety would aggressively explore and investigate the crew, not aggressively kill people for no apparent reason. Finally, ending the event with a deus ex machina sounds like the worst way you could end anything, next to blowing up the entire station.


It killed Tempest because I told them a day prior that I'm fine with it killing Tempest, they asked me if I'd be fine with Tempest being the first death of the event. It was a planned thing for Tempest to be the first death. That's why the red eyed shadekin didn't attack anybody else until Tempest ""accidentally"" stumbled into it. I'm honestly fine with Tempest dying in general, as long as it isn't due to a kink thing like digestion. Gunshots, stabbing, general killing is fine. Even if it IS blatant murderbone, I don't care, because shi's implanted and always has hir sensors on max, and if left to hir own devices, the Medbay can be prepped entirely, chemistry and all, in fifteen minutes. On Polaris, in order to prevent Medbay from countering antags, my Chemist/CMO character would intentionally be sought out at roundstart and axed ASAP, sometimes it was only one emote followed by attack-spam, and I'm fine with that. So... yeah. The shadekin death was planned, and even if it wasn't, I'd be fine with it. I guess the only times I wouldn't be is if it happens while I'm scheduling a scene.

Murderboning is boring though. It doesn't really make for a good antagonist or a fun round. At the very least, the antag should kill people in creative ways. Maybe they should have picked somebody who's fine with digestion, or kidnapped Tempest and left hir in a room with the supermatter or something. Make it creative and interesting, and have a motive for doing it.
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby nerdass » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:13 am

regarding what nanaki said about the bullets, I was roleplaying it out because if you shoot someone in the chest, the bullets logically won't magically deflect and curve around their prey, and k't is literally my character that I have specifically for bad things to happen to him.
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Scree » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:54 pm

Ragnarok222 wrote:The other players reactions are a bit more tricky between people turniping and purposefully withholding information as Nanaki pointed out, but if someone gets the information they need to beat the 'kin and doesn't spread it then that means the 'kin needs to take more time to mess around and expose its weakness. Ideally their weakness should be widely known before they decide to eat the engine or anything else that will bork the whole server, giving the crew a fair chance to stop them. Once again the Shadekin has almost every advantage here, it's up to them to give the crew a chance to enjoy it.

TL;DR It's an RP server, people need to RP. If the Shadekin holds back and RP's it out so the crew has a chance to interact with them meaningfully then great things can happen and the Shadekin being all kinds of OP isn't an issue but a feature. If the Shadekin can't resist using their OP powers to their most optimal 'winning' strategy then no one but the Shadekin will have fun, and maybe not even them.


this is a problem I see with a lot of events. It's a careful balancing act, because there are some people that are determined to treat every event as something to "fight", and in response admins have to scale the event so these players can't just shitstomp the event to feel good about themselves. It's a very annoying vicious cycle which is why most of my events tend to involve buildmoding some shit for players to find and then centcom announcing "hey, we've got reports of a thing, go find the thing". I kinda deliberately keep my 'kinning low-key and interact with things in the most minor of ways to avoid attracting the attention of the "it's coming right for us" lynch mobs.

We had this same problem with mercenary events a while back when the armory was seriously overstocked. Security had so many guns it caused an arms race when it came to events, in that any serious threat had to bring seraphs or some shit even to stand a chance, which meant anyone not in security was reduced to spectators at best, and cannon-fodder at worst.

... that, and you brought up the turnipping thing. That's a big pain in the backside because even a friendly shadekin is going to be beset by "eat me pls" types hanging around them and refusing to leave them the hell alone until finally the thing lashes out, and... oh look, "CODE RED, IT'S HOSTILE" and the event is effectively ruined regardless of whether it uses its abilities to just vacate the area.
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby iiVoracious » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:56 pm

Every fucking Shadekin event has become the same shouting match over comms every single time. Not to mention the fact there's no protocol to handle the asshats to actively antagonize them in an IC fashion. It's gotten stale to the point where halfway in I just leave due to the annoying, childish bickering.
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Wickedtemp » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:56 am

So, shadekin popped up again last round, this summed up my experience with them.

https://imgur.com/a/6Q2Yw0E

Most of the shadekin I've dealt with have been like this, and it's why I'm starting to honestly hate shadekin as a whole. It wouldn't be so bad if they'd just leave the lights alone, but it's like they're intended to be played like whitelisted greytide.
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby ktccd » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:21 am

>Intelligent creature
>Gets rid of lights by caveman-SMASH!
>Does not understand pointing towards the exit
>Does not have enough empathy or emotional intelligence to understand someone being mad at them
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby zammyman215 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:44 am

The above two posts and Temp/Hero's bigger ones sum it up. Their behavior needs to be better monitored and vetted.
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Re: Shadekin Events! What do you like? What don't you like?

Postby Wickedtemp » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:17 pm

Basically their behavior currently is exactly the way Vox Pariah were played on NSS Exodus Bay.

1) Go in or near someones department or a heavily used public spot.

2) Do something mildly intrusive or annoying thats technically against IC regulations.

3) Continue doing it until someone confronts you verbally.

4) Ignore all verbal requests because your character conveniently doesn't understand gal-comm.

5) If someone tries to roleplay actions instead of verbal requests, meet any attempt with a post on how terrified and innocent you are, always play the victim.

6) Either run away and play victim or ignore it and continue being annoying until someone attacks you. Play victim and 'self defense' if you're attacked.

7) Repeat until you've ruined the species for everyone.
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